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Naim Supernait 3 surgery

This thread is like the Boris saga, seems to go on and on and when things look like they might quieten down, along comes another party ( Sorry another person knowing of umpteen Unhappy Naim customers , and how shitty a company they are)
I suspect both will prevail.
 
This thread is like the Boris saga, seems to go on and on and when things look like they might quieten down, along comes another party ( Sorry another person knowing of umpteen Unhappy Naim customers , and how shitty a company they are)
I suspect both will prevail.

It's because somebody asks a perfectly ordinary question about channel balance and then people get uppity because they don't like Naim and it turns into a slanging match. It's a shame, because there are some good answers and explanations in amongst the insults!
 
It's because somebody asks a perfectly ordinary question about channel balance and then people get uppity because they don't like Naim and it turns into a slanging match. It's a shame, because there are some good answers and explanations in amongst the insults!

I don't think anyone has insulted the OP. It wasn't a perfectly ordinary question; he wanted advice to invalidate his warranty. it's quite reasonable to make the point about the OP's own record of his amp history. That isn't an insult. The OP then got uppity - predictably given some of his other recent exchanges. Then a brand new, and quite odd-looking account joined in support of the OP, and, well, you get the drift.

I agree that there is a point here about the gain structure of some - especially early- Naim preamp sections. That is a known idiosyncracy of the brand. But it varies a lot and IME there is a difference between old and new. From memory, one of the Nait 5s had a passive pre section for example.

That isn't the same thing as saying (as the OP effectively does) that Naim, Alps, some combination of the two, are fleecing their customers.

Finally, there's been little if any consideration of the rest of his system and - assuming that he is acting in entirely good faith - why at least four different amps that he's recently bought (NB not demmed; bought) have turned out to be quite so dreadful.
 
@Tim Jones fair enough, that's a good summary I'd say. As I said, I've experienced channel imbalance before, particularly on the NAC22. I bought it for peanuts on eBay; it had been seriously got at, but I managed to fix it. It was biased towards the r/h channel. I changed the pot and eventually wired out the balance control. I even had two volume controls at one point, but I soon got fed up with that. I have an Alps black beauty on the shelf, but I know that ultimately, too much gain is the issue. Having said that, I have had no issues with the 32.5 or the 42.5 apart from only being able to use half of the range of the pot.
 
…..have to say the balance issue, Naim have at lower volumes, has parked up my interest in their brand; it’s very noticeable when listening quietly at night!
I’d be interested to re-assess and audition if they do implement ladder volume control across their Classic range.
….I once ran an old 112 preamp (ladder style volume) into a Nap200dr and it behaved faultlessly, any audio shortcomings from the entry level pre being compensated for by the awesome power amp. I also enjoyed the huge volume range afforded by the electronic pot.
 
At the core of that problem a technical issue is that the Supernait 3 seems (at 130 mV sensitivity IIUC) to have maybe up to 20 dB too much gain for when it is set to mid-volume, driving 'speakers with 89 dB SPL sensitivity, from a nominally 2V full scale line-level source (I assume). This has been pointed out by several contributors and accords with my experience of gain line-ups in audio kit.

You have to throw this extra gain away via the volume control. Instead of being centred at maybe 20 dB attenuation (11:15 clock position), it has to provide 40 dB attenuation at about 08:30. A consumer-priced potentiometer will inevitably fare worse there and balance will often drift off.

The solution is to avoid whatever is likely or inevitable rather than just blame the potentiometer. Although I sympathise with the OP's frustration at not being assisted (by his dealer) to a solution, I doubt his strong opinion that the Alps pot is fundamentally to blame. Unless it is actually broken replacing it may or may not be a fix. I have had two of the Alps blue RK271 here (rather fewer than @Arkless Electronics has seen) and they have both performed well for balance, even down to about the 08:30 position.

If sticking with the Supernait 3, a part of the solution may be to try about 20 dB of attenuation before trying any surgery. The volume pot will then move up to a place where it should be in more consistent balance and where the balance control can be set once for all volume levels. Nominally, attenuation should go between preamp and power amp. But I think this is a 5-pin DIN interface and I don't know of a current product. I would build my own but the OP may not have the know-how. Maybe 20 dB RCA attenuators on an input can be tried. I am surprised the dealer could not help here but I think the OP's frustration, although understandable, may be getting in the way of a solution.
 
Rega after sales service is superb, had 2 faulty Elicits both replaced within a week - just very unlucky

While i was packing up the 2nd faulty Elicit my daughter knocked the box off the side unit - said box put a hole through my speaker driver cone which Rega also replaced free of charge.

The OP should listen to an Aethos amp - absolutely stonking
 
The OP resides in France I believe, why not try a Lavardin amp? Much lower gain than Naim and IMHE much more musical.

I heard one of the latest IS ref models at a dealer couple of years back when the SN3 was launched and there was no comparison to my ears. Good demo at MAX as I recall, when I used to visit dealers …..!
 
The OP resides in France I believe, why not try a Lavardin amp? Much lower gain than Naim and IMHE much more musical.

I heard one of the latest IS ref models at a dealer couple of years back when the SN3 was launched and there was no comparison to my ears. Good demo at MAX as I recall, when I used to visit dealers …..!

Each to their own I guess
i had a Naim 140/62 against an IS, clearly preferred the Naim combo.
Never heard other Lavardins tbh
 
Just a quick observation on the Alps Blue pot after it having received some adverse comments on here regarding its use by Naim and Rega. I was looking at the doyen of PF the Sugden A21se and the new kid on the block the Exposure 3510 - from the internal photos both look like they use the Alps Blue.
 
Just a quick observation on the Alps Blue pot after it having received some adverse comments on here regarding its use by Naim and Rega. I was looking at the doyen of PF the Sugden A21se and the new kid on the block the Exposure 3510 - from the internal photos both look like they use the Alps Blue.

That's because it's the best money can buy. The Alps Black and the Panasonic are no longer available....
 


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