advertisement


Naim solstice price

NickofWimbledon said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The CDS2 was indeed replaced many years ago in Naim's range (though not due it having bad SQ), but I do not agree that it and all Naim & Linn CD players were or are 'half-baked crap'. Do you also regard the NDX2 + XPS2DR as equally 'crap'? After all, it sounds very like the CDS2.

You also say that I can buy a digital source to beat the newer Naim products (NDX2 + XPSDR again?) for £1K. Which one is that?

The NDS has now-obsolete streaming architecture, but sounded good to most in - about 2012. However, a lot has changed in streaming in the decade or so since it was introduced, and the choice of DAC chips is only a part of that. I certainly regard that NDX2 + XPSDR as better in SQ and functionality than the NDS.

Second-hand prices are often a good indicator of where VFM lies. Th fact that a 30+ -year-old 250 power amp (with a service in the last decade) sell for more now than it did when I bought it is a hint on VFM. Similarly, NDX2s do not seem to be valued like (say a Cambridge CXN (V2). By contrast, a Naim Core certainly works well, but the second-hand prices suggest that 'the market' regards the new price as perhaps twice fair value compared to competition.

CDS2's have a mechanism that will not last forever, yet still sell for £1500+ and we have all seen the prices of very second-hand LP12s. The same effect may benefit you if selling a set of NAP135s.

It is possible that all that second-hand demand comes from idiots who do not have your judgement or hearing. However, that is not the only explanation for the divergence in views.
Click to expand...

Define better!

Sounds better to you - can't possibly comment since everybody's perception of sound is unique to them.

Measures better - certainly!

Topping D90 SE - second best measuring dac so far tested by Audiosciencereview.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90se-review-balanced-dac.24235/

What I can say is my CDSII was bettered by what I had three upgrades and twenty years ago and my current equipment is better still. I haven't directly A/B'd any of it against Naim's current top stuff since there isn't going to be any question of me shelling out for Naim's current top stuff.

I'll also state for the record that I've never heard a 500 series system actually sound like anything I'd be remotely interested in buying. They seem to completely destroy all musicality to my ears. Quite the reverse of Naim's most often stated selling points in fact (ie PRAT and boogie factor)

I did have a listen to a Chord Dave but ultimately chose not to go there since it seems to rely mostly on upscaling and other tricks when used in non direct conversion mode and I assume all of those tricks will become available through offline file processing at some point.
 
MrPinkEyes said:
I had a CDS2, the pRat from that machine was just mad good, had a great sound stage. I found putting a hiline into the mixed helped it out a lot. Bettered on the hifi front by cds3 but not in the prat department imo.
Click to expand...

Agreed - my CDS2 was I think the most enjoyable digital source I have ever had - but not the "best" in other more objective senses.

I think part of the pleasure of all the Naim players I tried, particularly the top loaders , was the tactility of the lid/door, clamp and the buttons...not quite sure how it added to the experience but it did seem to!
 
NickofWimbledon said:
You also say that I can buy a digital source to beat the newer Naim products (NDX2 + XPSDR again?) for £1K. Which one is that?
Click to expand...
I can’t claim that a used NDX will beat this newer combo but if anyone is looking for an immersive and totally satisfying digital experience for £1k, it does exist.
 
colasblue said:
Define better!

Sounds better to you - can't possibly comment since everybody's perception of sound is unique to them.Y
Measures better - certainly!

Topping D90 SE - second best measuring dac so far tested by Audiosciencereview.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90se-review-balanced-dac.24235/

What I can say is my CDSII was bettered by what I had three upgrades and twenty years ago and my current equipment is better still. I haven't directly A/B'd any of it against Naim's current top stuff since there isn't going to be any question of me shelling out for Naim's current top stuff.

I'll also state for the record that I've never heard a 500 series system actually sound like anything I'd be remotely interested in buying. They seem to completely destroy all musicality to my ears. Quite the reverse of Naim's most often stated selling points in fact (ie PRAT and boogie factor)

I did have a listen to a Chord Dave but ultimately chose not to go there since it seems to rely mostly on upscaling and other tricks when used in non direct conversion mode and I assume all of those tricks will become available through offline file processing at some point.
Click to expand...


You need me to define 'better' in the sentence: "I certainly regard that NDX2 + XPSDR as better in SQ and functionality than the NDS".

Really? Why don't I replace it altogether?

"I regard the former as providing a consistently more enjoyable musical experience to me and to those who have heard it in my house over the last few years" than would be available from an NDS.

"I regard the wider range of inputs on the NDX2 as of consequence, and believe that it is easier to use overall".

Depending on what you mean by 'better', it looks as if we disagree on how good the CDS2 was - fair enough.

'Measure better' is a different can of worms. I am not convinced that we know all the measurements we would need (nor enough about hearing) to give a 1:1 correlation between the measurements and what most people report hearing, and do not believe we can state with certainty that the difference is due to the listers being daft, deluded, dissect or deaf. It seems likely that we disagree on this.

There are entire threads here discussing the Objective/ Subjective debate in all the detail you could want. I look forward to your contribution on them, as they would seem a more appropriate place to discuss the topic you are raising than a discussion of Naim Solstice pricing.

You may be particularly interested in the thread that specifically deals with ASR's unusual approach to the subject generally, and its review of the Naim Atom in particular. Some of the more Objectivist (and this is clearly a simplification of anyone's position) there make a lot of good, relevant and well-supported comments, though I think it fair to say that unalloyed support for ASR's approach, rigour, methodology and conclusions is not for now the majority position.
 
I have a buddy with an Ord SE TT Graham Phantom Elite 3 10’ tone arm (that was a nightmare to fit because it didn’t using a SME mount) with a super tuned Lyra Atlas (sent it to Wally in the US for a Fetal) all into a Naim 500 system. That setup turned his CD555 into a paper weight and the Nds is a door stop.
 
Last edited:
I’ve always had excellent results from digital & still enjoy my LP12 even though it doesn’t get the use it once did.

My system has never sounded better even though in terms of RRP it’s lowlier than what I had before.
 
I sold my CDS2 xps to fund my Lyra Kleos SL! Hundreds of CD’s and no way to play for time being. Thinking of a chord cd one or a Rega Saturn Mk 3. Cant see me streaming just yet I have my reasons….
 
MrPinkEyes said:
I have a buddy with an Ord SE TT Graham Phantom Elite 3 10’ tone arm (that was a nightmare to fit because it didn’t using a SME mount) with a super tuned Lyra Atlas (sent it to Wally in the US for a Fetal) all into a Naim 500 system. That setup turned his CD555 into a paper weight and the Nds is a door stop.
Click to expand...
That cartridge alone costs more than most turntables.
 
per-Sony-fied said:
That cartridge alone costs more than most turntables.
Click to expand...
Yes indeed, its a bit like having a friend who owns a boat. Well umm he has 2 of them. Seriously he works hard and has been on the down a number of times, he’s never given in or up. Got to take your hat to people like that. He who dares win as they say:)
 
MrPinkEyes said:
Yes indeed, its a bit like having a friend who owns a boat. Well umm he has 2 of them. Seriously he works hard and has been on the down a number of times, he’s never given in or up. Got to take your hat to people like that. He who dares win as they say:)
Click to expand...
Well, hats off to him. My point was the huge sum of money put into vinyl replay to beat the (his) CD equivalent.
 
A decent TT Seeing off an expensive DAC isn't necessarily hard. Seeing off a good DAC might be somewhat harder.

Don't think I can quite run to a Lyra Titan and Phantom Elite for my Orbe but nice to know it has upgrade potential.

Amir's review of one very expensive DAC makes for hilarious viewing, provided, of course that you don't own one!

 
Gee why would anybody buy them if they sounds like he makes it out. Ive read a number of posts on the Naim forum where folks rave about it, now this dude is basically saying it as good as a $600 or so DAC! Ill stick to my old lp12 and let my ears do the talking…
 
James said:
I thought a Lyra Kleos was getting into rarefied air for me. The sweet spot for my LP12 is a Hana ML. It does a great job keeping my Densen B-440XS honest. I've learnt to let go of chasing rainbows.
Click to expand...
I love the Hana ML and have a number of hours in front of one listening to a big Class A Perreaux 400 rms , SL10 TT, 12’ wand tone arm, Hana ML With a number of wand experimental phono battery powered preamps, kimber cable 801 Nautilus, at volume it is totally amazing as in jaw dropping eye shattering beer drinking good!!! Nothing but pure analog!!! I mean concert good, pants moving from 801 woofer displacement! My little pussy cat 52/135 SL2 lp12 Aro Lyra setup doesn’t even come close at hi volume no show in hades, but down low its better. Think I find the detail and Musicality I get from my Lyra Kleos SL is what i like. But yes the Hana has amazing VFM and has been said can compete with carts twice its price which i firmly agree with.
Wow what a beast of a system the perreaux is. FYI those amps had been up graded by the ex owner Designer Peter Perreaux, had a number of smoothing cap added plus whatever other magic….
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top