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Naim = bright?

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flatpopely said:
I'm genuinely interested as to the reason they sound different.
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Little Nait and the pre/power?

The RIAA in the old Naits rolls down the bass more than in the pre amp cards.

The whole amp (Nait 1 certainly) is also rolled down at the extremes a little more than with the bigger Naims.

That's all fairly sensible with a very small 15w amp.
 
Brian said:
I doubt you'll be getting any technical explanation here is my guess, more like references to golden ears and have you level matched, done blind tests etc because they're both competently designed and will therefore sound the same. Any measurable differences will be below audibility and all that guff. But you never know, I may get a surprise.
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Some people don't care how cars work. They just want to get from A to B. They may choose by colour.

Some people like cars and appreciate differences between a BMW and a Toyota. They may not know why there is a difference, but they like what they like.

Some people understand cars and know that the engine/drive orientation, weight distribution, suspension configuration, sub-frame isolation, engine tune and such like explain most of the differences to justify their choice.

Some people need to see the performance stats first before they'd even consider a test drive.

All of them are right.
 
Dinovector said:
Apparently not if we believe some, if it measures the same it will sound the same, no need to home dem electronics, even with your own speakers in your own house.
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There is no 'apparently' about it.

I've seen enough instances where the ears have been fooled (deliberately sometimes as I've done myself) to know that listening with no controls in place is very unreliable.

I'd go so far as to say that well over 80% of comment that appears in forum audio rooms is incorrect, precisely because listeners fail to implement even basic controls such as level matching, let alone any form of unsighted listening.

The silly Naim Brightness argument currently in progress is a perfect example. You've got a completely polarised argument and they can't all be right. Going by that discussion an awful lot of people are either very wrong or very deaf!

....and it could all be so easily sorted with a little effort.
Sad state to be in.
 
Paul R said:
I don't think so. You'll need to enlarge your argument to explain how the amp can be 'off' when at least half the output stage is 'on'.

I think a more likely thread would be to do with the bandwidth of the amp and the deliberate reduction of feedback with rising frequency and what that implies about how it handles RF on the output. Class A wouldn't help in this case.

Paul
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A typical Naim type power transistor takes several microseconds to switch on an several to switch off, it runs at around 20mA of bias current which means after the output reaches 160mV into a nice 8 ohm load one transistor has to switch on and the other off, you can work out at what frequency for a given maximum amplitude both are off.
 
Brian said:
By the way, what is the better vehicle, a Porsche 911 or any brand of people-carrier?
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That question has no answer without defining better for what purpose? What is the specification against which the two vehicles are being compared? For ferrying a number of people about, the people-carrier will be better. For posing, the 911.

Even apples and pears can be compared if the specification is correctly stated.

If the specification is which fruit tastes more like an apple, then there's a pretty good chance that the apple will prove, to a statisticaly valid sample, a better match with the specification.

S.
 
I have heard a Naim system sound very bright/harsh. I have heard the very same Naim setup lose the brightness/harshness and snap into focus when subsequently set up correctly.
 
one transistor has to switch on and the other off
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One or the other is already on. The drive to the output stage is bandwidth limited, so I'm not sure where you are going.

Much more interesting than 'bright' for an amp with a flat response though.

Paul
 
flatpopely said:
Ergo your opinion is just that, an opinion; no more, or less valid, than any other opinion.
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If I want an opinion about something medical, I would prefer that of a doctor to a builder, but if I wanted one about putting up an extension, I would prefer that of a builder to a doctor's.

Opinions are not all equal.

S.
 
sergeauckland said:
If I want an opinion about something medical, I would prefer that of a doctor to a builder, but if I wanted one about putting up an extension, I would prefer that of a builder to a doctor's.

Opinions are not all equal.

S.
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Serge.

I'm just saying that an absolutist viewpoint is not easy to backup.

I'd still like to know why amps sound different, I hear it. Can the figures support what I hear?

I have electronics training and that leads me to believe amps SHOULD sound different.
 
flatpopely said:
But all modern amps are transparent in all measurable ways so why do they sound different?
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Level matched, not clipping in the same room through the same speakers, they don't.

That's not just opinion. That has been established in blind test after blind test.

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
Level matched, not clipping in the same room through the same speakers, they don't.

Chris
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My valve monos sounded different to my s/s monos, through the same speakers and with the same volume level on the pre. Time and time again over a six month period. Same room, same sources, cables, you name it.

Must be my ears; failing that, my brain; maybe even my comprehension of your statement above. Maybe, just maybe, the questionable concept diktat of all amplifiers sounding the same, provisos notwithstanding.
 
Mike Reed said:
My valve monos sounded different to my s/s monos, through the same speakers and with the same volume level on the pre. Time and time again over a six month period. Same room, same sources, cables, you name it.

Must be my ears; failing that, my brain; maybe even my comprehension of your statement above. Maybe, just maybe, the questionable concept diktat of all amplifiers sounding the same, provisos notwithstanding.
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Chris was referring to NAIT vs NAP135s.

I had NAP135s and still have a NAIT2. I can confirm that they sound very similar when I compared them just for a giggle. I would struggle to pick them apart in a blind test unless I had the opportunity to turn up the volume.

James
 
Mike Reed said:
My valve monos sounded different to my s/s monos, through the same speakers and with the same volume level on the pre. Time and time again over a six month period. Same room, same sources, cables, you name it.

Must be my ears; failing that, my brain; maybe even my comprehension of your statement above. Maybe, just maybe, the questionable concept diktat of all amplifiers sounding the same, provisos notwithstanding.
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I take it the gain on both types of mono was exactly the same? If not you're not level matching.
 
Somebody please pull my finger...

A massive, collective fart is necessary in this f***ing thread

Numbers , or the lack of, prove absolutely nothing when it comes to how an individual human beings brain will decipher or interpret sound..

We are not all wired the same thank god
 
flatpopely said:
Serge.

I'm just saying that an absolutist viewpoint is not easy to backup.

I'd still like to know why amps sound different, I hear it. Can the figures support what I hear?

I have electronics training and that leads me to believe amps SHOULD sound different.
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I also have electronics training, and I don't see why they should sound any different if each amplifier is basically sufficiently good, as virtually all modern SS amps are.

There, we'll have to differ.

S.
 
sergeauckland said:
I also have electronics training, and I don't see why they should sound any different if each amplifier is basically sufficiently good, as virtually all modern SS amps are.

There, we'll have to differ.

S.
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Ok.

Can you just confirm that you don't hear a difference between modern SS amps?

E.g a Marantz PMA4200 and a NAIM SuperNAIT
 
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