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My experience with vinyl

If you already have a decent pressing, particularly an early press then the Audiophile edition won't be any better.

I think that depends. A few months back I visited a fellow PFM member to listen to his fantastic system. We took the opportunity to compare some different pressings of Ornette Coleman At The Golden Circle - a RVG stamped original, a Japanese Toshiba reissue and the Tone Poet.

I was surprised at quite how different the Tone Poet mastering sounded to the RVG. The RVG was a lot more compressed and the bass was noticeably rolled off - but it had an immediacy that made you sit up. The Tone Poet sounded a lot more natural and the double bass was defined and clear in a way that it wasn't on the RVG (or the Toshiba). It sounded more like a modern recording.

Very hard to say which was 'better' as the presentations were so different.
 
Your description makes me suspect the arm geometry was off.

I did assume that was the case but with a Rega RB300 arm, Rega cart and Planar 3 there ain't a lot to play with. It's all plug and play apart from the counterweight position and antiskate. I arsed about with those, and replacement carts, for a long time to try and correct it. Clearly heard the same thing in a shop demo and on two friends systems as well.
 
I think that depends. A few months back I visited a fellow PFM member to listen to his fantastic system. We took the opportunity to compare some different pressings of Ornette Coleman At The Golden Circle - a RVG stamped original, a Japanese Toshiba reissue and the Tone Poet.

I was surprised at quite how different the Tone Poet mastering sounded to the RVG. The RVG was a lot more compressed and the bass was noticeably rolled off - but it had an immediacy that made you sit up. The Tone Poet sounded a lot more natural and the double bass was defined and clear in a way that it wasn't on the RVG (or the Toshiba). It sounded more like a modern recording.

Very hard to say which was 'better' as the presentations were so different.
Exactly, but which is 'correct''? My inkling is that some audiophile releases are voiced in a way that appeals to hi-fi nerds, exaggerated imaging, warm sound etc? I think i prefer the back to black version of Aja over my early press, it's punchier but is it right? Does it matter? Thankfully I didn't pay £50 for either;)
 
Getting back to the OP, thanks for the long post. I fully appreciate your joys and frustrations and think most of us recognise quite a few of your experiences in there.

One of your points that jumped out for me was number 29...



Every Planar 3 I ever heard (4 so not a massive sample!) has really noticeable end of side SQ decay. Doesn't matter what cartridge is used. The turntables are arguably the best reviewed and widely respected in the audio world, yet I rarely see this topic mentioned in relation to them. Do the reviewers perhaps only listen to the first few tracks on an LP before rushing to write the glowing reviews. I loved my Planar 3 but ultimately I got rid of it because once noticed the end of side SQ drop starts getting really unbearable. It got so bad I stopped listening to the last couple of tracks on a side.

I moved to a Roksan Radius 5 and immediately the issue went away. Completely, dynamic open sound on every track unchanging from first to last. Granted it had slight speed stability issues that took a dedicated regulated power supply to fix but the difference was night and day. Maybe consider a small upgrade to the turntable if you decide to stick with vinyl.

Thanks interesting to read. I found that cleaning the massive ball of crud off the stylus mostly fixed it, and since I got the ML stylus it’s now crisp and wonderful (once cleaned x3 and if it’s not warped and if it’s a decent pressing in the first place) sound all the way to the run out groove.

The take home for me was that a decent needle, even on a budget cartridge like mine, is hugely important.
 
For me vinyl is a multi faceted/four headed hydra that includes stuff I buy purely to listen to, stuff I buy as a fan of certain artists (and part of me is still fanboi enough to buy everything some people do), some stuff I buy purely because I think it will be a tidy little investment and why not? and some incorporates a bit of fanboi/listening/investment combined. I also like owning short runs, limited pressings or nice versions of stuff because I have whatever that gene is that gets turned on by stuff like that.

The only problem with the above approach is that I'm too impulsive and buy too much stuff I shouldn't, hence I'm currently selling a few things after a stern word with myself, not that my collection is vast but I have space taken up by things I shouldn't have bought.

From a sound quality perspective I think if I just wanted an analytical CD-like sound I'd be content with a mid range Rega package, but there is a certain magic in a suspended deck with a unipivot and a moving coil that I don't get from digital and I couldn't give a monkeys whether it is accurate or not it can sound spectacular with good material in a way that I've not heard from digital.
 
18 or so months ago I created this thread asking for help with getting my first turntable: https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/turntable-advice-planar-2-vs-planar-3.262895/

I've been meaning to do a follow up for ages now, so here it is.

I'm of the digital generation: why did I want a turntable?

Because a lot of my favourite bands only release stuff nowadays on download and vinyl (and, increasingly, cassette but lets not go there...), and I'm a huge fan of owning my music physically in my hands rather than hoping that the 1s and 0s are still in the correct order computer to computer. If I can get it on cd I do as a first option, otherwise I'm stuck with vinyl.

What I'm trying to say is I didn't get into turntable ownership because I hankered after sound quality or yearned for yesteryear or because its fashionable nowadays: it was literally a functional decision so that I could play the small collection of records I'd amassed over the years. All I wanted was something that wouldn't be embarrassed by my digital front end.

Enter, the Rega Planar 3. It came with an AT VM95E however the first several records sounded thin so I upgraded to a second hand VM95ML stylus and the problem went away. I upgraded my Project phonobox to a Schiit Mani and again, things got much better indeed. Compared to the outlay on the turntable I figured these additional bits were definitely value for money.

So, million dollar question: have the deck and additional bits provided what I needed and do my records sound good?

Answer? Well, it depends.

And here we get into my experience with vinyl: playing records is a FAFF. And finding a record thats been pressed well is even more of a faff.

The problem with smaller bands releasing limited edition vinyl is its as much about looks and presentation as the actual product. Which I absolutely get and completely understand that at 0.005p per stream no band will pay the rent without selling the 180g gatefold super deluxe limited edition in rainbow splatter. Problem is these are a) very expensive (most recent purchase was £50 on record store day for the latest ultra limited re-release I was after) and b) I get the distinct impression they weren't really designed for listening to: the better sounding records I've found have been the bog standard more mass produced black vinyl releases.

My first record playing experience on my brand new deck:

1) set up deck
2) re-watch countless videos to ensure counterweights etc are all floating correctly and everythings properly aligned
3) eagerly select the most sought after record in the small pile of records collected over the years
4) unwrap it and look at it. Ooooooh, isn't it pretty? And look at the artwork! Beautiful. I can really see why vinyl and the physical media is a thing: there's considerably more pride of ownership of this than the million cds I have
5) hang on: there are four sides here and NONE of them are labelled. Wtf?
6) seriously, what the hell side is side A?
7) (scour sleeve for some form of clue)
8 (find none)
9) hold record up to the light: there's something scratched in the record near the label
10) squint and second guess and squint again.
10) Aha! Why can't they print the damn thing on the label!?
11) place record correct side up
12) position tonearm
13) triple check its the right height and balanced correctly etc
14) start turntable
15) wtf? why isn't the record flat?! Its been in a flat box its entire life.
16) lower needle, run to armchair
17) why is it so quiet? I've got a phono stage, thats supposed to bring everything up, surely?
18) run back to amp, check connections etc, all are sound. Turn volume up significantly.
19) run back to armchair
20) what is that damn popping sound? I checked for scratches, couldn't see any on either surface.
21) plus, this is a BRAND NEW, fresh out the shrinkwrap record.
22) poppings gather in volume, both literally and, well, literally
23) there is a static sound between tracks. Whats going on?
24) two whole songs into the album (this is the 2LP ultra limited edition, remember: thats maximum 3 songs a side to fill up all four sides) the record runs out.
25) what? I was literally just getting into that. Best jump up and rescue the needle from the run out groove (I created a thread about that a few months later: does leaving it in there for a while damage the needle. Apparently it doesn't. but I didn't know that 18 months ago)
26) raise tonearm
27) WHAT THE HELL IS THAT CRAP DANGLING FROM THE NEEDLE?!?!
28) dust. Its dust and other assorted rubbish from inside the grooves. Wtf? This was a brand new, shrinkwrapped record. Where the hell has all that come from?
29) Aaaah - thats the weird static sound between the songs. Also possibly why the sound lost impact near the end of track two.
30) clean literal dangling ball of crap off of stylus.
31) turn record over.
32) scrabble around in the box the turntable came in for the antistatic brush the dealer chucked in.
33) 'clean' record. The brand new, sealed in the box record. Mutter obscenities to self.
34) lower needle back onto record
35) run back to armchair
36) fewer pops this side
37) get up after three whole songs more to change the record.

I've learnt a lot since then. I've learnt that unlike literally-any-other-brand-new-product-in-existence you have to clean brand new records. This is LUDICROUS. I'm not about to get a record cleaning machine however I have invested in a velvet record brush to go alongside my antistatic one, as well as a stylus brush. So now before playing a side I antistatic brush, then velvet brush, then stylus brush, THEN listen. I've come to terms with the fact that you only just start sinking into an album before you have to change sides, brush everything x3 and then play the second half - thats just the limits of the medium.

But you know what? I'm buying less and less vinyl. Before, it was the limited edition super ultra version that I'd seek out and justify the expense over the cd if a cd was even available. Nowadays, I buy the vinyl if there is literally no other way I can obtain the physical release on cd anywhere else, new or second hand (discogs is a wonder!)

And you know what I do when I buy a brand new, sealed in the shrinkwrap cd?

I open my cd drawer, pop it in, amble slowly to the armchair, aim the remote and listen to it.

Simples.

I admit that I've overegged this one a little. As someone who grew up on cds and ipods vinyl really is pointlessly cumbersome, and the gamble of whether or not the damn thing will actually sound decent or not when you've finally brushed it and the stylus is really, REALLY getting old.

Listening to music on records is the absolute antithesis of 'convenience' Quite how the vinyl revival is gathering pace (or not - we've all read the articles about it) I have no idea as clearly the people buying them can't be playing them.

But you know what? When you get that one in 10 record that actually has no damn pops, very little warping, and has more than two tracks per side, I must admit: on my humble Planar 3 it sounds STUNNING. Better than cd? No, just different. There is always more weight and bass impact on the cd version. But for sheer imaging perfection and some form of ephemeral, tingling je ne sais quoi...?

Yup, I get it. I really get it.
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Every Planar 3 I ever heard (4 so not a massive sample!) has really noticeable end of side SQ decay.
Something has either been off with alignment there or the stylus tip hasn’t been up to it. The Rega geometry is best for a start. I’m not saying this was the case but forcing Baerwald alignment on a Rega arm is at best a real faff & ultimately unnecessary. A ~1mm change in overhang made a huge improvement with my AT-VM95ml on my Rega, in that I could hear no EOS distortion after.
 
Absolutely spot on!!!

I think playing records and getting reproduction that excites can be regarded as a long journey lasting decades rather than something that can be instantly accessed.

I have had a record turntable of some sorts for 40 ish years. It is only the last 15 ish years that I have started feeling that I am (mostly) very satisfied with the overall sound.

Would I swap all that time with lesser hi-fi reproduction? Learning through experience good and bad? No, I would not. Where’s the fun in that.
 
I am rapidly tiring of records. New ones and secondhand ones are increasingly a complete crapshoot. I am still drawn to buying and hoarding them, though. I currently have about 30 secondhand ones awaiting inspection, cleaning and new inner and plastic outer sleeves and I’ve just ordered the Feelies double live album of VU covers. Will we never be set free?
 
Like many addictions, it is bloody expensive. Ridiculously so as some of the records I am buying I sold 20 years ago. I do like looking at them and handling them so much. It's a ritual putting a record on really. Another sign of addiction...
 
I'm probably bloody minded in my perseverance with the medium and a recent new album is really trying me. Full of static, I thought it might play itself in (some do) but it doesn't take long for a build up of fluff to accumulate on the stylus. The opening track sounds horrendously distorted in places even with a clean (stylus brush and/or a Goldring electronic device) but bizarrely the second track plays fine. I don't do record cleaning (I messed up a prized lp being over zealous with a Discwasher pad back in the day) but I'm going to cave in and look for a dealer or a record shop with a Keith Monks and have a pro job done on it. Bugger.
 
I am rapidly tiring of records. New ones and secondhand ones are increasingly a complete crapshoot. I am still drawn to buying and hoarding them, though. I currently have about 30 secondhand ones awaiting inspection, cleaning and new inner and plastic outer sleeves and I’ve just ordered the Feelies double live album of VU covers. Will we never be set free?
This is exactly me too! - except for more modest numbers.

As a vinyl user from my teen years I seem to have this immutable position carved into my brain where vinyl is The Real Thing. I see it as the format to outlast all others. Record quality has frustrated me for at least 20 years. You just don’t know what you’re going to get. Some reissues are dreadful, undeclared vinyl rips.

If I see a band I like I’ll almost always buy the LP after the gig, & almost invariably it’s a disappointment. The pressing might be acceptable but the mastering tends to be terrible. It does the music no justice at all. I have one LP where the cutting appears to have been tweaked as it was made: compared to the download, the first three tracks are badly distorted. I thought there was something wrong with my setup, but no.

It seems that many young bands releasing LPs think of the format as little more than a physical artefact. I don’t think I’m being cynical here as they release cassettes as well, or only cassettes. I don’t even consider buying them. If you’re making a record, put some effort & pride into it!

I saw further evidence of this after a recent local gig when I helped one of the bands pack up the next morning. Another bands member had left his two film cameras behind (he did come back for them). The lenses were filthy! But hey, film is fashionable.

Grumpy Hazelberry out!
 
I feel as though I’ve been through the vinyl phase, still attached to it but it’s secondary. My habits have changed of late, trying to use Amazon less & Bandcamp more.

I think I will end up downsizing my LP12 to something like a Rega P8, probably the appropriate level of investment.
 
I feel as though I’ve been through the vinyl phase, still attached to it but it’s secondary. My habits have changed of late, trying to use Amazon less & Bandcamp more.

I think I will end up downsizing my LP12 to something like a Rega P8, probably the appropriate level of investment.

LP12 can better digital but it's a big spend according to the cognoscenti. Safer with a Planar 3, grab a 50th Anniversary model before the end of the year.
 


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