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Music, Home Theatre, when to give up integrating both?

This is a conundrum that I faced back in the day when I had a Naim 2-channel stereo system and started 'adding on' to get surround sound.

In those days, most audiophile thinking, and certainly many stereo manufacturers' claims, was that multi-channel setups compromised the 2 channel sound.

In part, and in my experience, this was mainly due to an understandable reluctance to spend the money on matching speakers and amplification all around for a multichannel setup, by audiophiles, who then understandably decried the result with 'mixing and matching' of amps and speakers inferior to the main 2 channel pair, as being a waste of time.

Similarly, almost in a rearguard action, many stereo manufacturers decried multi-channel setups, - but in most observations, only until such time as they had their own products ready to compete in the marketplace.

Personally, if I am spending considerable sums on an A/V system, I expect it to be able to reproduce either stereo, with ping pong balls, and steam trains moving from one side of the room to the other (mono is so old hat), whilst in multi-channel mode, moving flying helicopters and jet aircraft around the room with equal aplomb.

As to music, be it in two-channel stereo, or a modern-day multi-channel surround sound mix, I expect the same level of engagement, enjoyment, and authenticity to the source.

Unfortunately, that does mean matching speakers and amplification all around - at least as far as possible. One can compromise, but the results will always be a compromise as well.

I achieved a very good result with my then mix of Naim amps/front speakers, and a Sony amp/processor for Tannoy bookshelf rears, but when I eventually replaced it all with a B&O TV (which has an onboard processor and fully active speaker array doubling as the center channel in movie mode) and B&O fully active speakers, there really was a performance jump that ten years later still thrills, and gives me equal results no matter whether the source material is two-channel or multi-channel.

Yes, it is an expensive route - no question - but the results are absolutely worth it if you enjoy and are passionate about both music and movies in the home reproduced to the same very high level.
 
I suspect it depends on your taste in movies. I'm not into large scale special effects, being much more interested in dialogue, cinematography, acting and plot. So I got rid of my multi channel amp & many speakers, replacing them with a BlueSound Node (with TP PSU), Rega Elix R and KEF LS50 Metas. I now have a very engaging music set up and good movie sound (2 channels are fine for me).
 
I jumped from 2 channel to multichannel capable single system many years ago. For me it made no sense spending money on two systems, rather put that money into a single very good system.

Heart of my current system is a bryston sp3 pre-processor (up to 7.1 capable, but I use it in 6.1 mode). Music listening is in 2.1 channel mode, I dislike the effect of expanded stereo. 2 subs enhance music or film audio.

My first step from 2 channel to multi channel involved a mid price AV receiver connected to my integrated amp via pre-outs, I.e. using the integrated amp to drive left and right speakers and receiver to drive the other channels including sub. Worked but the mid price AV receiver sounded poor.

Only problem with the approach I have ended up with is there are very few pre-processors that are very good for stereo music as well as multichannel. Choice is limited and prices are high, plus if you are interested in 3D audio choice and prices are worse.

One other advantage of using a pre-pro for stereo is you get bass management built in. Adding sub(s) for stereo music gives a big change for the better, see the thread about adding subs on here.
 
Even though my hearing is degrading, I can still tell that my (decent) AV amp is not as good as my integrated so:

My Home Cinema system is made up of HiFi speakers that, for home cinema purposes, is 6.1

Fronts are Monitor Audio (S8) and matching centre. 3 x Rears are Mordaunt short CS-1. Sub (courtesy of @hifinutt ) another Mordaunt short.

I simply have run another set of speaker cables from my integrated, so when I want to listen to either, that side gets plugged in. To save any issues the "redundant" cables are stored in a made up speaker input (see pictures).

This way, it takes 5 secs per speaker to switch from HC to HiFi.

My HiFi stuff is all plugged into my Pioneer Precision and the AV stuff (Satelite, Chromecast and TV optical from my OLED) are plugged in my Sony 2400ES.

When my hearing gets to the point of being unable to make out the difference in my music, the AV amp will stay as a hub for everything (it even has a phono stage!).

Anyway , pictures of the front end. Hope that makes sense. :oops:

eZS0vjA.jpg

GygnY15.jpg

372198z.jpg
 
Yes, it is an expensive route - no question - but the results are absolutely worth it if you enjoy and are passionate about both music and movies in the home reproduced to the same very high level.

I did think B&O a while back and happen to live within 45 mins of two B&O shops. I am sure your system is excellent, soundwise, lookswise and ergonomically. The trouble is, after all these years, all my power amps are useable, even ones older than me. My AV8, good though it is, is obsolete and pretty much useless, the Yamaha RX-A2010, also very good, is fairly pointless nowadays, and the Marantz NR1509, which was bought as a bit of a stop gap, is, frankly, a bit rubbish. Amplification evolves but never gets old, whereas screens and processors get obsolete real fast. When I had the Yamaha pro logic processor I used a Leak TL12+ for the centre chanel amp, and it worked great. If I had the money for B&O I'd think about it seriously, but I don't. I have B&O headphones and they're great (better than the B&W I also have) and really wish I'd got some B&O hi-fi stuff when the prices were rock-bottom 15 or so years ago. No doubt a full B&O system will ride out the obselesence more than most, but must surely succumb in the end.
 
I suspect it depends on your taste in movies. I'm not into large scale special effects, being much more interested in dialogue, cinematography, acting and plot. So I got rid of my multi channel amp & many speakers, replacing them with a BlueSound Node (with TP PSU), Rega Elix R and KEF LS50 Metas. I now have a very engaging music set up and good movie sound (2 channels are fine for me).

Absolutely - my movie tastes used to be B&W film noir when mono would have been fine, but now I also like car chases, explosions and helicopter gunships, not to mention space-aliens and flesh eating zombies, so surround adds to my enjoyment. Not that I get up to that stuff in real life.
 
I simply have run another set of speaker cables from my integrated, so when I want to listen to either, that side gets plugged in. To save any issues the "redundant" cables are stored in a made up speaker input (see pictures).

This way, it takes 5 secs per speaker to switch from HC to HiFi.
There are too many wine drinkers in this household - that solution would lead to short-circuits and tears.
 
I had a system based around an Onkyo AV amp a few years ago. I enjoyed it. I think there are differences but they’re not the gaping chasms that some assert. I changed because I lost interest in the surround sound thing really. Got a B&O TV and enjoy the picture and sound very much.
 
First a little bit of history: I was an early adopter of home cinema, plugging a Yamaha pro-logic decoder into my integrated, adding to my speaker count, and using a stereo VCR as a video source. Then came DVD, so I got one with a 5.1 decoder and of course I needed a receiver that could take the 5.1 chanel inputs and got a cheap Sherwood from RS. This was home cinema bliss - vibrating sofa, things spinning around the room - great. Then I played music on it - dreadful. IMPORTANT - my home cinema expectations are more easily satisfied than my music ones. What followed was expensive Arcam Alpha 10s, Dave modules and more.

To cut a long story short, over twenty years on, I seems to have downgraded in stages (Exposure 30202SD/Marantz NR1509 via AV8/7 channel Audiolab and Yamaha RX-A2010). I am thinking now about giving up this crusade and getting a Sonos ARC and sub (I already have Sonos speakers I can use as rears), so for about 1600 quid I can fix all this home cinema nonsense to my satisfaction, while also allowing the rest of the household to play what they want with a simple to use app. This will completely liberate my music system.

The alternative would be to keep my current speaker setup and replace the Marantz/Exposure setup (I like the Exposure but the Marantz not so much) with some Arcam at around 3000-4000 quid, then if I want Atmos I will need to spend that again on all new speakers to keep the synergy. When I think what sort of music system I could get for that sort of money (see the important bit above) with the bonus of moving the speakers around the room (not either side of the telly) the Sonos sounds very attractive. I also hate having a huge centre speaker, great though it is.

Has anybody around here done this? Thought about it? Done it and regreted it? I am probably more interested in critiques of my methodology and thought process than any specifics about hardware. Any other ideas?

I fancy getting back into the music side of this hobby and just letting the home cinema take care of itself.

It seems that you might have already convinced yourself of the best route forward - I think your logic behind potential next steps makes sense. My take away is that you want to maximise 2ch playback.

I’d just recommend trying to listen to some different set ups before committing, which can get difficult if you do want a discrete Atmos rig (not a mega sound bar with a squillion drivers firing in all directions, not that there is anything wrong with that as an option).

I ended up with a one brand Meridian system (all old stuff, only 5.1 and all bought used with the exception of the Arendal subs) but I think pretty good for basic 2ch. I have had dCS kit into large ATCs and other more ‘purist’ systems but found that surround sound is important to me, so much so that I only listen in surround, even with 2ch content, mainly via the PLII Music DSP option on the pre pro.
 
Even though my hearing is degrading, I can still tell that my (decent) AV amp is not as good as my integrated so:

My Home Cinema system is made up of HiFi speakers that, for home cinema purposes, is 6.1

Fronts are Monitor Audio (S8) and matching centre. 3 x Rears are Mordaunt short CS-1. Sub (courtesy of @hifinutt ) another Mordaunt short.

I simply have run another set of speaker cables from my integrated, so when I want to listen to either, that side gets plugged in. To save any issues the "redundant" cables are stored in a made up speaker input (see pictures).

This way, it takes 5 secs per speaker to switch from HC to HiFi.

My HiFi stuff is all plugged into my Pioneer Precision and the AV stuff (Satelite, Chromecast and TV optical from my OLED) are plugged in my Sony 2400ES.

When my hearing gets to the point of being unable to make out the difference in my music, the AV amp will stay as a hub for everything (it even has a phono stage!).

Anyway , pictures of the front end. Hope that makes sense. :oops:

eZS0vjA.jpg

GygnY15.jpg

372198z.jpg

Nice looking system! Does your Sony receiver not have pre-outs so that you can connect it to an input on your stereo amp rather than having to swap cables?



I am as much of a home cinema geek as I am a hifi one :) so my main system and cinema are tied together in a dedicated room with 5.1.4 Atmos, a projector and screen, and some room treatments!

JOnc4fX.jpg


HXgyrj9.jpg
 
@Hcanning thanks. It has preouts for each set of speakers but I'm not sure how you'd do it?

If you Google the amp rear (Sony 2400ES), maybe I can be enlightened :)
 
This is the same conundrum I’ve been dealing with over the last 15yrs. So glad that I’m not alone ☺️. To me 2 channel Hifi is more important than a fully fledged av home theatre setup. It took a while for me to realise that!!!! Number of expensive buys and mistakes later, I’ve downsized 2 yrs ago from an av system that doubled as a Hifi system to just 2 channel Hifi that occasionally supports a 65 inch 4k tv with sound. I’m happy now.
 
@Hcanning thanks. It has preouts for each set of speakers but I'm not sure how you'd do it?

If you Google the amp rear (Sony 2400ES), maybe I can be enlightened :)

Nice amp :) you simply pop some interconnects between its two front speaker preouts and an unused input on your stereo amp. You also need to designate a fixed volume level on your stereo amp for AV listening, and then re-adjust the front speakers' levels on the Sony amp to match the centre/rears. Then, when you want to use the AV portion, you switch your stereo amp to the designated input, and set the volume at the designated point.

It sounds like a bit of a faff but you'll get used to it, and in my opinion is a better, more streamlined method than swapping cables!


I'll take that lovely Technics graphic equaliser off you as payment for my advice now. ;) :D
 
I have integrated it previously using stereo fronts into my NAP250 from a Yamaha A/V amp which then drove rears and centre. It was ok but not amazing.

I then had a dedicated music room, bought Kef Eggs for the tv sitting room and have to say they were superb. Replaced with a Yamaha projection soundbar for ease of wiring and that is great too.

I do think there is much benefit to running stereo only. Yes, it’s not surround but so long as your speakers can move a bit of air, it still sounds pretty dammed good.
 
It seems that you might have already convinced yourself of the best route forward - I think your logic behind potential next steps makes sense. My take away is that you want to maximise 2ch playback.

Indeed. Although I'm just less fussy about multichannel than 2 channel. Out of idle curiosity I took out the Marantz and put back in the Arcam AV8 and the three channel Alpha 10 for the centre and rears. The centre channel sounds better, but the lack of HDMI is annoying and the lip-sync, which I'd nearly got sorted, has all gone to pot. I think I hate HDMI.
 
On a purist front it is amazing how poorly most av receivers perform when measured. However one of these ...
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-dm7-8-channel-dac-review.35661/

I have no idea why it doesn;t have hdmi input though. Is it easy to get a box which will decode dolby dts etc and output pcm via usb (ideally with some drc)? In theory it shouldn't be so difficult. Once you've dne that you would have something which outperfoms any av receiver afaik. That would seem to be a good start.
 
Is it easy to get a box which will decode dolby dts etc and output pcm via usb (ideally with some drc)? In theory it shouldn't be so difficult.
or will an hdmi-usb converter do the trick?
 


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