Met police to hand in weapons and stop killing black Britons

[tiggers]

How about the police stop shooting dead unarmed black men? That would be a start.

Indeed, but, at least in part, that must be the result of the culture in which they are trained and in which they subsequently work. I am thinking more along the lines of trying to address that culture. That is a huge undertaking.

 

[Andrew C!]

sanguine

Please example where I have been unduly optimistic or positive in this post? I feel all I have done is try to assist in the post with factual info.

 

[Andrew C!]

In initial reports in the press it said an officer had been suspended for gross misconduct,this wasn't repeated.

I didn't say the officer had been instantly suspended. I confirmed the incident would trigger a mandatory referral to the IOPC. I've not read anywhere that suggested he was immediately suspended. That is a matter for MetPol's PSD to justify.

I'd further add that its up to the force in question to suspend the officer under the relevant regulations. As far as I recall the IOPC does not have the authority to do this - but I may be wrong.

 

[gavreid]

No, Gavin. Amongst some that post here, you are better than this. I say that with all due deference to the info in particular you have updated us all on in the Covid era.

It may feed the vitriol that permeates thru such threads as this, but the fact it this was immediately alerted to the IOPC. The fact this wasn’t publicised as such is a different issue.

Mods - moderate or delete as applicable.

We have some 40 deaths a year at the hands of the police, either in custody or after contact. I think I'm right in saying that there has never been a successful prosecution for murder in this country. I have no faith in the IOPC, in practice it is little more than an advisory body, without the ability or the desire to deal with rogue officers and criminality within the force.


Fewer than one in 10 police officers fired after gross misconduct finding

Figures from England and Wales raise questions about IOPC’s efficiency as police forces’ watchdog

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...officers-fired-after-gross-misconduct-finding

 

[Ginger]

We have some 40 deaths a year at the hands of the police, either in custody or after contact. I think I'm right in saying that there has never been a successful prosecution in this country. I have no faith in the IOPC, in practice it is little more than an advisory body, without the ability or the desire to deal with rogue officers and criminality within the force.


Fewer than one in 10 police officers fired after gross misconduct finding

Figures from England and Wales raise questions about IOPC’s efficiency as police forces’ watchdog

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...officers-fired-after-gross-misconduct-finding

simply saying that there are 40 deaths a year tells us nothing. See one of my previous posts about 1500 deaths in NHS mental health units in ONE county alone (albeit over several years).

 

[Dave H.]

simply saying that there are 40 deaths a year tells us nothing. See one of my previous posts about 1500 deaths in NHS mental health units in ONE county alone (albeit over several years).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

The training armed officers go through is beyond thorough. The firearms licensing officer I deal with is ex met SFO. Super chap, says it’s nice to see people who are pleased to see him rather than run away from him. You’d think running away from a SFO was about the most stupid thing any human being could possibly do.

Surely, if what you say in previous posts is correct, running away carries no risk? Running toward, however, could well be about the most stupid thing a human could possibly do, even if unarmed.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

We have some 40 deaths a year at the hands of the police, either in custody or after contact.

‘In the hands of the police’ rather than ‘at the hands of the police’ surely? There’s a non-trivial difference.

 

[gavreid]

‘In the hands of the police’ rather than ‘at the hands of the police’ surely? There’s a non-trivial difference.

I meant 'at'. Occasionally there will be coincidence like somebody keeling over in a supermarket but that's not what we are discussing

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I meant 'at'. Occasionally there will be coincidence like somebody keeling over in a supermarket but that's not what we are discussing

Annual deaths by shooting at the hands of the police are running at low single figures, Gav; are you sure there are several dozen other examples of the police killing people in their custody by other means?

 

[gavreid]

Annual deaths by shooting at the hands of the police are running at low single figures, Gav; are you sure there are several dozen other examples of the police killing people in their custody by other means?

https://www.inquest.org.uk/deaths-in-police-custody

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

So you’re classing somebody killing themselves by crashing a car while being pursued by the police as ‘death at the hands of the police’?

 

[Ponty]

Surely, if what you say in previous posts is correct, running away carries no risk? Running toward, however, could well be about the most stupid thing a human could possibly do, even if unarmed.

Yes, running in any direction is a stupid thing to do! Stay still, do what you’re told and you won’t get shot.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Yes, running in any direction is a stupid thing to do! Stay still, do what you’re told and you won’t get shot.

So a non-threatening running away is likely to get shot? In the back, presumably.

Isn’t that rather at odds with your blithe assertions earlier in this thread?

 

[gavreid]

So you’re classing somebody killing themselves by crashing a car while being pursued by the police as ‘death at the hands of the police’?

Of course! Such an event requires proper investigation

 

[Ponty]

So a non-threatening running away is likely to get shot? In the back, presumably.

Isn’t that rather at odds with your blithe assertions earlier in this thread?

Surely that depends on the circumstances. If someone had shot / stabbed an officer and was running away, possibly to shoot / stab someone else?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Surely that depends on the circumstances. If someone had shot / stabbed an officer and was running away, possibly to shoot / stab someone else?

So it’s ok to kill somebody if they are likely to escape arrest?

You did notice that I specifically said ‘non threatening running away’ didn’t you?

 

[Finnegan]

simply saying that there are 40 deaths a year tells us nothing. See one of my previous posts about 1500 deaths in NHS mental health units in ONE county alone (albeit over several years).

Doesn’t it tell you that 40 a year die? And yes, the disproportionate ratio of young black men detained under the MHA, and deaths in psychiatric units in general, are too fully deserving of heightened consideration.

 

[Ponty]

So it’s ok to kill somebody if they are likely to escape arrest?

Look, the police go through the training, not me. I fundamentally trust the decisions they make in the heat of a moment. Sometimes things will go wrong. Same with doctors and all manner of other professionals.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Of course! Such an event requires proper investigation

Well, requires proper investigation is not the same as ‘killed at the hands of the police’.

What about death in custody having overdosed on drugs/alcohol?