JohnW
pfm member
Just opened the box - its in perfect condition...
MDAC first listen (part XXII)
- Thread starter JTC
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Just opened the box - its in perfect condition...
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Seconded.
Right, I'll get my arse to the post office and send them via Parcelfarce on a next day to CZ. It'll cost me 40 quid but if it keeps you lot happy...
Hi Steven, perhaps John could discount your upgrade costs and pass the balance onto us guys, it only seems fair to me...
Cheers for the effort at your end...
Will
Richard Kimber
pfm Member
Is this why some people de-gauss their kit? I note that Isotek sell a "Full System Enhancer CD" which they claim is used for demagnetising existing hi-fi components and rejuvenating the entire system. I have previously been inclined to think that this was snake oil territory.
- Richard.
JohnW
pfm member
Richard,
I'd still be inclined to believe its snake oil! I doubt mass demagnetising would have any effect of "low-level" localised magnetic fields induced within components... Just screams unscrupulous sellers looking for a mythical science “semi-theory” to sell there wares...
How can you demagnetise a plastic / aluminium CD (both are essentially non magnetic).
I say non magnetic because even water at extremely high magnetic field levels is "semi magnetic"... there's a name for it... I recall once seeing a film of a frog levitating in one of the worlds strongest magnetic fields...
Oh DEAR - enter the darkside and we start talking about Levitating FROGS!!!
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Hi Steven, perhaps John could discount your upgrade costs and pass the balance onto us guys, it only seems fair to me...
Cheers for the effort at your end...
Will
I just want to give John the chance to compare directly the Fusion and Toy options fully assembled against the reference as well as each other before sending the units out to their respective owners if they do the business (hopefully.)
The resistors are now sent. They should arrive tomorrow or Friday, more likely Friday.
JohnW
pfm member
OK – I’m sure you would all like to know how the Bulk Film Resistors sound (well the x4 Pcs so far)???
Fitting these resistors is like a Diamond cutter working on someone else’s Diamond – theses resistors are so damn expense for a resistor that I’m nervous working with them!!!
The Dales are just too dark sounding, On Jem’s unit they don’t sound too bad, but on JohanH unit the sound is just too “Dead”.
Obviously I need to understand why there is such a difference between the units… As I said earlier the only thing visibly different between the units is the brand / make of a few resistors in the Analogue stage. I stress that I’d rather NOT believe that its these small component differences that have “broken” the sound of Johans unit…
Now, please don’t tell Fusion that I’ve first tried out his resistors on Johans unit. I choose to do this for several reasons:-
1. Fusions unit has been previously modified to an earlier “Sovereign” upgrade, this not representative of current MDAC’s (not that they seem constant in the first place).
2. As I’ve been working heavily with Johan’s unit over the past few days I “know” its sound quality traits.
Yep – all I’ll say at this time is Resistor DO EFFECT the sound quality – this is the 4th variation of resistor I’ve used and defiantly the best. Its definitely in the Tyco direction with very good detail and open sound stage… Bass is V Good. It’s the best sound I’ve had from Johan’s unit!
Renata’s in bed in the next room with a cold – she has no idea want I’m doing here in the lab but just yelled out that the unit I just played has the best “sound stage” – now obviously she cannot hear sound stage laying in bed (and to add to that with a cold), but what I believe she means is the extra level of detail has clearly resolved the “Ambience and reverb” of the recording (WJ Live)… its this resolving of “ambiance” that she calls sound stage from the next room….
Now the effect has been so pronounced that she decided to comment with being asked… I was not even aware she was listening – If I was decent person I would have closed the door so she could rest…
Early days, its my first impression, its important to listen for longer and not jump to instant conclusions…
I’m still not happy with Johan’s unit; I “Feel” something is still holding it back… Maybe I should have added the resistors to Jems unit…
Oh yes – please don’t tell Fusion that I’ve borrowed his resistors for awhile….
Fitting these resistors is like a Diamond cutter working on someone else’s Diamond – theses resistors are so damn expense for a resistor that I’m nervous working with them!!!
The Dales are just too dark sounding, On Jem’s unit they don’t sound too bad, but on JohanH unit the sound is just too “Dead”.
Obviously I need to understand why there is such a difference between the units… As I said earlier the only thing visibly different between the units is the brand / make of a few resistors in the Analogue stage. I stress that I’d rather NOT believe that its these small component differences that have “broken” the sound of Johans unit…
Now, please don’t tell Fusion that I’ve first tried out his resistors on Johans unit. I choose to do this for several reasons:-
1. Fusions unit has been previously modified to an earlier “Sovereign” upgrade, this not representative of current MDAC’s (not that they seem constant in the first place).
2. As I’ve been working heavily with Johan’s unit over the past few days I “know” its sound quality traits.
Yep – all I’ll say at this time is Resistor DO EFFECT the sound quality – this is the 4th variation of resistor I’ve used and defiantly the best. Its definitely in the Tyco direction with very good detail and open sound stage… Bass is V Good. It’s the best sound I’ve had from Johan’s unit!
Renata’s in bed in the next room with a cold – she has no idea want I’m doing here in the lab but just yelled out that the unit I just played has the best “sound stage” – now obviously she cannot hear sound stage laying in bed (and to add to that with a cold), but what I believe she means is the extra level of detail has clearly resolved the “Ambience and reverb” of the recording (WJ Live)… its this resolving of “ambiance” that she calls sound stage from the next room….
Now the effect has been so pronounced that she decided to comment with being asked… I was not even aware she was listening – If I was decent person I would have closed the door so she could rest…
Early days, its my first impression, its important to listen for longer and not jump to instant conclusions…
I’m still not happy with Johan’s unit; I “Feel” something is still holding it back… Maybe I should have added the resistors to Jems unit…
Oh yes – please don’t tell Fusion that I’ve borrowed his resistors for awhile….
So progress, I presume.
Please do not stop until my unit is the best you've ever heard
Thanks for going the extra mile
Johan
JemHayward
pfm Member
I second that - missing it terribly!
JohnW
pfm member
OK I'm sorry for the bad news, but all those 13 units I've thus sent out will need to be return to me at sometime to be updated with the Bulk films x4... I'll pay for the x4 Bulk Films + return shipping as compensation for the inconvenience of having to ship them back to me...
It’s STUPIDLY good!!! I CANNOT believe how good even Johan’s unit now sounds (even with what ever is still “constraining” it) - I simply cannot! The amount of pure resolution these 4 resistors have brought to the table!
I can clearly hear this extra dimension and realism even though the “constraint” of Johan’s unit (indecently SimonOm units has the same constraint – so I’m now really suspecting the “Blue” 220R resistors as fitted to both units are at fault – otherwise its going to be really hard to find the cause).
I think I might a theory as to “How” these resistors are having such a dramatic effect on the sound quality– a logical explanation is that the "Quality” of the resistor is being “Magnified” by its function within the circuit – its part of an “inner feedback loop”.
As a theory I like to put forward that the forward gain of the amplifier “Magnifies” the quality effect of this resistor – there’s about 120dB forward gain, so I suggest that the “Quality” of the resistor is being “magnified” potentially by a factor of a million – hence it should no longer be such a surprise to anyone that this component position has proved to be so sensitive…
In “layman’s terms” think of a throttle control for a 1,000,000 HP engine – the throttle is going be extremely sensitive especially when driving a very light load – this is essentially what’s happening in this application. Any slight movement (or non linearity) of the throttle peddle is magnified by the MASSIVE power of the engine.
Thinking alone these lines and I can now better understand why others have reported improved sound quality with lower open-loop gain amplifiers (think lower power engines) – its not the Open Loop gain level that’s the problem, rather the linearity of the feedback components (the quality of the throttle control) being magnified by the open loop gain (Engine power)…
When you start to magnifying anything by a million times all kinds of odd effect are going to start coming into play... atleast I don't have to feel that I'm going mad... (just think "Magnified" by a Million times )
It’s STUPIDLY good!!! I CANNOT believe how good even Johan’s unit now sounds (even with what ever is still “constraining” it) - I simply cannot! The amount of pure resolution these 4 resistors have brought to the table!
I can clearly hear this extra dimension and realism even though the “constraint” of Johan’s unit (indecently SimonOm units has the same constraint – so I’m now really suspecting the “Blue” 220R resistors as fitted to both units are at fault – otherwise its going to be really hard to find the cause).
I think I might a theory as to “How” these resistors are having such a dramatic effect on the sound quality– a logical explanation is that the "Quality” of the resistor is being “Magnified” by its function within the circuit – its part of an “inner feedback loop”.
As a theory I like to put forward that the forward gain of the amplifier “Magnifies” the quality effect of this resistor – there’s about 120dB forward gain, so I suggest that the “Quality” of the resistor is being “magnified” potentially by a factor of a million – hence it should no longer be such a surprise to anyone that this component position has proved to be so sensitive…
In “layman’s terms” think of a throttle control for a 1,000,000 HP engine – the throttle is going be extremely sensitive especially when driving a very light load – this is essentially what’s happening in this application. Any slight movement (or non linearity) of the throttle peddle is magnified by the MASSIVE power of the engine.
Thinking alone these lines and I can now better understand why others have reported improved sound quality with lower open-loop gain amplifiers (think lower power engines) – its not the Open Loop gain level that’s the problem, rather the linearity of the feedback components (the quality of the throttle control) being magnified by the open loop gain (Engine power)…
When you start to magnifying anything by a million times all kinds of odd effect are going to start coming into play... atleast I don't have to feel that I'm going mad... (just think "Magnified" by a Million times
)
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Will the Fusion option be only slightly better, if at all, or will it be positively eargasmic?
To be continued.....
Presumably already with just the 4 bulk films you get both timing/depth AND texture/width.
To be continued.....
Presumably already with just the 4 bulk films you get both timing/depth AND texture/width.
JohnW
pfm member
Well if my Forward Gain theory is in anyway correct - then the main overall feedback loop resistors (the 220R's & 1K's) should make an even greater difference - although I find that very hard to believe, but its certainly going to be exciting times discovering
I don't want to draw conclusions as I'm listening on a "crippled" black unit - I can still hear the original "black unit" sound (I'm not saying all black units sound like this, my personal hand built unit does not)... and please PLEASE don't believe I'm being racist here - my own personal MDAC is black!!!
iansr
pfm Member
John
you said: "so Im now really suspecting the Blue 220R resistors as fitted to both units are at fault".
I've now lost track; are these different to the 4 resistors you are replacing with the Vishays?
If so, I guess you are going to try replacing those too . . . ?
Edit; our posts crossed, looks like you will be trying that
you said: "so Im now really suspecting the Blue 220R resistors as fitted to both units are at fault".
I've now lost track; are these different to the 4 resistors you are replacing with the Vishays?
If so, I guess you are going to try replacing those too . . . ?
Edit; our posts crossed, looks like you will be trying that
JohnW
pfm member
The "Blue 220R" resistors I refer to as the black unit's "prime suspects" are original components fitted to the black MDAC's - they are NOT part of the modifications (yet!!!).
The 120R Tyco / Dale resistors (the ones I've just change to Bulk Foil) are fitted as part of the upgrade process - so my bad
iansr
pfm Member
Now I definitely want at least those 4xbulk films too
Goes for me too
It sounds as though a little trip to CZ is called for in late July or August, as you still have my MDAC packaging in the back of your car or somewhere
JohnW
pfm member
It sounds as though a little trip to CZ is called for in late July or August, as you still have my MDAC packaging in the back of your car or somewhere
We would be very happy to have you visit us here in Czech!!! - a trip to the mountains is called for! Then I can dream of our future house
The "Blue 220R" resistors I refer to as the black unit's "prime suspects" are original components fitted to the black MDAC's - they are NOT part of the modifications (yet!!!).
The 120R Tyco / Dale resistors (the ones I've just change to Bulk Foil) are fitted as part of the upgrade process - so my bad
So next step would be to replace those blue resistors with Bulk Foil?
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