MDAC first listen (part XVII)
- Thread starter Sebbyp
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fusion5
on the dark side of hifi...
HELP--- I'm just about to press the button on some 3M. £ 900 Scandanavian XLR cables to link my MDAC to a a pair of MIMP's
Don't! Buy 300 USB leads instead.
misterdog
Not the canine kind
Actually considered 4 MIMP's but that seemed too complex !. Only considering the XLR's because they are on offer at £400 but yes your right, hence the prefix HELP.
But to reduce costs I shall use coat hangers between the MIMP's and speakers
If the MIMP's sell for £400 ish. direct from JW they would likely be £500/600 in the stores. But how good will they sound ?
Only time will tell, and some good coat hangers.
misterdog
Not the canine kind
It was while listening to First Aid KIt (a Scandanavian band) that made me consider Scandanavian XLR cables
Actually considered 4 MIMP's but that seemed too complex !. Only considering the XLR's because they are on offer at £400 but yes your right, hence the prefix HELP.
But to reduce costs I shall use coat hangers between the MIMP's and speakers
If the MIMP's sell for £400 ish. direct from JW they would likely be £500/600 in the stores. But how good will they sound ?
Only time will tell, and some good coat hangers.
So far as I know they are only available through lakewest by post?
misterdog
Not the canine kind
And a £ 3 USB ? Plus £20 for an isolator of course.
I use Nordost Blue Heaven XLR's which made a big difference. But going Monobloc requires longer than my 0.5 M. Doh.
For my MDAC<->MIMP, I'm probably going to use CORDIAL CSM 10 FM GOLD (yes, 10 meters, I want MIMPs close to speakers), ~50£ for two 10m XLR cables. And I'm sure they will sound amazing!HELP--- I'm just about to press the button on some 3M. £ 900 Scandanavian XLR cables to link my MDAC to a a pair of MIMP's
Seems a little odd when I have a £ 3 generic USB lead going into my MDAC !
Also just bought a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 headphones and realised I should have bought HD 800's.
The 600's are good, slightly more revealing than my Celestion A3's but don't have the 'body' .
JW could you book me in for a pair of MIMP's please ? I will be happy to demo them to PFM members.
Bank Manager - I'm not who you think I am
Seriously, if you're considering 3 meters of 900£ cables and are not a millionaire, go in front of a mirror and ask yourself out loud, who you are and what you really want.
(that's my reality check and it usually works when I need to sort out my priorities)
fusion5
on the dark side of hifi...
It was while listening to First Aid KIt (a Scandanavian band) that made me consider Scandanavian XLR cables
Yeah, I did follow your recommendation and got myself the album "The Lions Roar". Listening to it makes me wanna buy some Scandanavian XLR cables too...
Michael
misterdog
Not the canine kind
I gathered from your new 'username'-glad you like it.
Listening to it makes me want to emigrate -and be 20 years younger
Hi John
I have tried to read all posts about Mpax possible to not repeat myself, but there are some issues that I have no clear.
Both RCA and XLR analog inputs may be selected with the remote control and independently?
With the volume control option can be regulated from the remote control. performing any preamp signal or only can be dimmed?
It would be too much to ask that we could see some pictures of the prototype.
Regards
I have tried to read all posts about Mpax possible to not repeat myself, but there are some issues that I have no clear.
Both RCA and XLR analog inputs may be selected with the remote control and independently?
With the volume control option can be regulated from the remote control. performing any preamp signal or only can be dimmed?
It would be too much to ask that we could see some pictures of the prototype.
Regards
I gathered from your new 'username'-glad you like it.
Listening to it makes me want to emigrate -and be 20 years younger
Waking up in the morning does that for me
misterdog
Not the canine kind
RCA Phono cable uses 2 leads 1 hot 1 cold.
XLR cable uses 3 cables hot/cold and ground, where the ground is largely 'redundant' carrying unwanted artifacts away.
Human genome sequencing (the method of cell reproduction) utilises 3 of 4 genomes where the third is largely redundant. A system which is so error proof that hardly anyone develops 3 ears or eyes.
My audio system benefited greatly from the introduction of XLR cables.
Maybe the whole principal of digital reproduction being based on a Binary digital system of only 2 digits is flawed.
Maybe the future is a Tertiary based digital system ?
Just a thought. Sorry not MDAC related (yet ? )
XLR cable uses 3 cables hot/cold and ground, where the ground is largely 'redundant' carrying unwanted artifacts away.
Human genome sequencing (the method of cell reproduction) utilises 3 of 4 genomes where the third is largely redundant. A system which is so error proof that hardly anyone develops 3 ears or eyes.
My audio system benefited greatly from the introduction of XLR cables.
Maybe the whole principal of digital reproduction being based on a Binary digital system of only 2 digits is flawed.
Maybe the future is a Tertiary based digital system ?
Just a thought. Sorry not MDAC related (yet ? )
misterdog
Not the canine kind
Duuuude! Ill have a £20 bag of whatever you're using mate
It's called DNA been used for thousands of years with excellent results.
I disagree with the excellent results - it was able to produce humans arguing endlessly about digital audio, which is a flaw right there!
misterdog
Not the canine kind
I disagree with the excellent results - it was able to produce humans arguing endlessly about digital audio, which is a flaw right there!
Back to moaning about the weather then and a wind up gramaphone
I just had a strange incident with my MDAC.
I was playing music using the USB input as I usually do. The audio
cut out. I thought it might be an issue with the ipad wifi connection
however it showed that it was still playing. I paused and restarted
the ipad and it began to play again.
A few minutes later, the same thing happened. Ipad shows it is
playing but no audio out of the mdac. I switched to another source
( optical 1 ) and the mdac played. I thought, must be an issue with
USB. I turned on the "Display USB Buffer" and switched back to
USB. The USB Buffer was about 1/2 full and moving but no audio.
The MDAC appeared unable to sync with the USB.
I then switched back to OPT 1, no audio, I tried COAX which was
connected to my CD player, no audio
I turned off the MDAC, waited a few seconds and powered it back on.
Again, no audio from any of the sources ( USB, OPT 1, COAX )
I tried the headphones. Again no audio.
I want to say that the MDAC was showing the source ( OPT1, COAX )
and the sync 16bit/44Khz but I'm not sure now if it was showing the
sync "16bit/44khz".
Powered the MDAC off and on again. This time, sync and audio on all
sources. ....
I'm hoping this known issue ... perhaps a firmware update ?
My unit is about a month old. I am running firmware A08.
This is the first "glitch" I've had with my unit.
I was playing music using the USB input as I usually do. The audio
cut out. I thought it might be an issue with the ipad wifi connection
however it showed that it was still playing. I paused and restarted
the ipad and it began to play again.
A few minutes later, the same thing happened. Ipad shows it is
playing but no audio out of the mdac. I switched to another source
( optical 1 ) and the mdac played. I thought, must be an issue with
USB. I turned on the "Display USB Buffer" and switched back to
USB. The USB Buffer was about 1/2 full and moving but no audio.
The MDAC appeared unable to sync with the USB.
I then switched back to OPT 1, no audio, I tried COAX which was
connected to my CD player, no audio
I turned off the MDAC, waited a few seconds and powered it back on.
Again, no audio from any of the sources ( USB, OPT 1, COAX )
I tried the headphones. Again no audio.
I want to say that the MDAC was showing the source ( OPT1, COAX )
and the sync 16bit/44Khz but I'm not sure now if it was showing the
sync "16bit/44khz".
Powered the MDAC off and on again. This time, sync and audio on all
sources. ....
I'm hoping this known issue ... perhaps a firmware update ?
My unit is about a month old. I am running firmware A08.
This is the first "glitch" I've had with my unit.
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Ok i do believe i have solidly enough understood sigma delta modulation so here i will conclude and reask my question.
I do understand that sigma delta modulation is a way to increase the signal to noise ratio and dynamic range in the form of noise shaping which can be used in a regular dac but with sigma delta its essentially not a dac at all but essentially just total noise shaping, something similar to Pulse Width Modulation but not completely the same thing (perhaps closer towards pulse density modulation though i have not fully diversed the differences yet).
With noise shaping there is a use of a mathematical algorithm which in some way averages out the error of quantization in a way that reduces the possible signal to noise ratio, this equation though is probably something i have not tried to understand as my goal is not this but to just understand what it does.
With noise shaping the ess sabre dac is of a 5th order design so it is able to reach higher levels of signal to noise ratio in the form of a 1 bit sigdel, oversampling is obviously used to do this and is why 84.672mhz is needed for a 32 bit word length.
Won't state anything further but added that i do know of the artifacts traited by sigdel and how ess have corrected them with their sabre products (variable noise floor and state variables being some).
So with that said i would think id know enough to understand why noise shaping affects digital attenuation with the m-dac, as pointed earlier in the thread i stated that with a 16 bit file and the 32bit ess dac it should be able to reach levels of -78db before quantization error occurs and 24 bit would reach -48 before the error would occur. John however stated that you don't loose the bits as i said because of noise shaping, so i still don't understand how noise shaping has a hand in this digital attenuation.
Is it something to do with the noise floor perhaps ?.
I do understand that sigma delta modulation is a way to increase the signal to noise ratio and dynamic range in the form of noise shaping which can be used in a regular dac but with sigma delta its essentially not a dac at all but essentially just total noise shaping, something similar to Pulse Width Modulation but not completely the same thing (perhaps closer towards pulse density modulation though i have not fully diversed the differences yet).
With noise shaping there is a use of a mathematical algorithm which in some way averages out the error of quantization in a way that reduces the possible signal to noise ratio, this equation though is probably something i have not tried to understand as my goal is not this but to just understand what it does.
With noise shaping the ess sabre dac is of a 5th order design so it is able to reach higher levels of signal to noise ratio in the form of a 1 bit sigdel, oversampling is obviously used to do this and is why 84.672mhz is needed for a 32 bit word length.
Won't state anything further but added that i do know of the artifacts traited by sigdel and how ess have corrected them with their sabre products (variable noise floor and state variables being some).
So with that said i would think id know enough to understand why noise shaping affects digital attenuation with the m-dac, as pointed earlier in the thread i stated that with a 16 bit file and the 32bit ess dac it should be able to reach levels of -78db before quantization error occurs and 24 bit would reach -48 before the error would occur. John however stated that you don't loose the bits as i said because of noise shaping, so i still don't understand how noise shaping has a hand in this digital attenuation.
Is it something to do with the noise floor perhaps ?.
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