MDAC first listen (part XI)
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JohnW
pfm member
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
I do not think of myself as "golden eared" but I can easily hear the difference, I think its down to the amplifier, poor amplifier and you will not notice any change.
Very possible - first suspect would be the extra RF energy coupling between the CD player's and MDAC - Optical interconnect does have its advantages...
I'd like to add that even with optical connection, extra RF is generated within the MDAC as its digital input stages "process" the data streams on all inputs - even though they are not selected (as the playback source). You are listening to second order effects of Data process - RF leakage, PSU modulation etc - even though we goto great lengths to reduce these effects - the human ear proves once again how incredibly sensitive it is!
John
I rarely use the USB connection. Is it better to interrupt the connection on the MDAC?
Hi
I've just looked at connecting my SB Touch to the M-DAC using a USB hub and the triode digital out but i'm struggling to see how to connect it.
Can someone who has done this tell me what leads they use because from what i can see you would need a USB type A to USB type A cable which i don't have in the vast collection of cables accumulated over the years ?
Hubs i have seen normally have mini USB connection to type A from the hub to PC and then all Type A sockets, A-B is needed for M-DAC to hub but then i would need Type A-A from SB Touch to hub unless i'm missing something
Cheers, Carl
I've just looked at connecting my SB Touch to the M-DAC using a USB hub and the triode digital out but i'm struggling to see how to connect it.
Can someone who has done this tell me what leads they use because from what i can see you would need a USB type A to USB type A cable which i don't have in the vast collection of cables accumulated over the years ?
Hubs i have seen normally have mini USB connection to type A from the hub to PC and then all Type A sockets, A-B is needed for M-DAC to hub but then i would need Type A-A from SB Touch to hub unless i'm missing something
Cheers, Carl
Hi
I've just looked at connecting my SB Touch to the M-DAC using a USB hub and the triode digital out but i'm struggling to see how to connect it.
Can someone who has done this tell me what leads they use because from what i can see you would need a USB type A to USB type A cable which i don't have in the vast collection of cables accumulated over the years ?
Hubs i have seen normally have mini USB connection to type A from the hub to PC and then all Type A sockets, A-B is needed for M-DAC to hub but then i would need Type A-A from SB Touch to hub unless i'm missing something
Cheers, Carl
Connect the hub to the SBT as if it is the PC with whatever cable comes with the hub, then connect the MDAC to one of the output ports. [The SBT acts as the host and replaces the PC in this setup]
delange
pfm Member
I finally had the time to update my Harmony one+ remote activities. With the help of Logitech support I was able to successfully include the M-DAC in two activities and have the remote change the M-DAC inputs accordingly. I currently use the two optical spdif interfaces (SBT and Digicoder). Works like a charm!
Thanks Adrian, i did manage to get it to work in the early hours using a old USB hub/card reader i had lying around though it looks a mess as it mains powered.
I saw your recommendation for the Hama hub on the squeeze forum so i will be ordering one of those
One issue i had was that when playing a 192khz file the M-DAC was showing it as 96khz, any idea why as i have set Flac file type to native and 96khz play as 96khz ?
Cheers, Carl
I believe there is an issue with the input selection at the moment, where the same input is selected with 2 different codes, i think Dominic is going to correct it in the next update ?
JohnW
pfm member
Thanks Adrian, i did manage to get it to work in the early hours using a old USB hub/card reader i had lying around though it looks a mess as it mains powered.
I saw your recommendation for the Hama hub on the squeeze forum so i will be ordering one of those
One issue i had was that when playing a 192khz file the M-DAC was showing it as 96khz, any idea why as i have set Flac file type to native and 96khz play as 96khz ?
Cheers, Carl
The MDAC only supports upto 96kHz via USB - the MTRN will add a 192kHz USB port...
delange
pfm Member
Yes, I read something like that on this forum. But it works fine in my setup. I'm running A06 on my M-DAC.
laviefacile
Dutch HiFi enthusiast
Really excited about the release date of version 0.9 of 1.0. Are we close John? I don't hear anything anymore about sound quality issues etc. Only additional wish that I've read (and longing for) is that we can name the inputs by ourselves, is that right
fusion5
on the dark side of hifi...
Yes and no
There is a problem with the new discrete code for OPT1. But when using the default Harmony profile for the MDAC, the input is selected by the Harmony with a "next input" configuration (it uses either INPUT UP or INPUT DOWN to cycle).
If you flash a firmware with the new "Default Input" option, you have to set it to "Recall last input" in order to get your Harmony working again. The default settings for this new option seems to be "USB". Alternatively, it's possible to reconfigure the Harmony to a "Default Input" setup.
Once the OPT1 bug is fixed it's possible to configure the Harmony to select inputs with discrete commands.
Michael
GrumpyOldMan
Active Member
So earlier this week I finally received my ultimate (probably...) headphone amp, a balanced, transformer-coupled vacuum tube WA22, the reason I got the M-DAC as my balanced source in the first place. And interesting things ensued. So here's some things that may be of interest to PFMers if they didn't know already, and a couple of questions.
-- I figured that between being balanced XLR and having a higher output voltage (4.5V vs. RCA 2.25V rms) and the amp pumping much more power into my LCD3s (at its impedance ~1500mW vs ~300mW on my OTL tube amp), the sound would be louder, but I still have to crank things up to ~1-2PM to get a similar sound level... it's not a big deal since it's distortion & noise-free, and a different tube set had me lower it a bit, but I'm still curious as to why it's not louder (the M-DAC volume being close to 0dB)
-- The digital nightmare: the idea was to hook up my rather pricey Cambridge Audio digital dock via optical to the M-DAC, but I ended up with huge amounts of dropouts, I listened to one song and it was like this...lyric...is...almost...inintel...ligible bad. When previously used with CA's own Dacmagic100 it was never that bad, even though it also happened occasionally (M-DAC jitter rejection was set to automatic)
To track down the issue, I switched to coax (jitter being strictly an optical issue?), same result. Rebooted my iPod Classic, used an older one, tried my iPad: same result. Gave up and switched to the much cheaper Pure i20 dock, no more problems for the rest of the evening.
I already took issue with the CA iD100 because of its half-backed iPod support and extremely primitive iPad support even with the latest firmware update, the fact that it locked up randomly with the iPad (confirmed by other users) but this is the last straw. How can something be this bad compared to one 1/3 the price...
Question: Are there other CA iD100 users here that can chime in with their experience, did I get a lemon? (even if it "mostly" works) CA tech support was not helpful at all btw. ("We don't have this problem in our lab")
So I'm looking at another dock (because I like the general idea of it, and the Pure just doesn't fit in well and I have a better use use for it elsewhere) The two choices are the Arcam drDock and the Wadia 171i.
Question: Any users of either of these two here who care to chime in with their experience?
Also the drDock only has digital coax out, which may have electrical interference issues.
Question: Is that a real concern or is it unlikely to cause sound quality issues? Maybe John can chime in with his expertise. (Or, preferring optical, should I just bite the bullet and get the more expensive Wadia which covers everything)
-- Lastly for those using iDevices: I just found out now that while the iPod etc. support 24bit/48kHz lossless playback, the actual output gets truncated to 16bit anyway!!! I learned this because the M-DAC actually displays the bitrate, unlike other DACs I own which either display nothing or just the sampling rate. So I was wondering if that was another issue with my current docks, but as it turns out it is the Apple dock connector output itself!
I verified this by first dropping my iPad in the dock and getting 16-bit output on the M-DAC, then switching to USB via the CC kit and playing back the -same- files now as 24bit (and up 96kHz) That solution is too clunky for me though, but at least now I know I might as well resample my source files as 16bit/48kHz where needed. While the improvement of downsampled & dithered vs. truncated might be debatable (though from what I could gather truncated is worse), at least I'll save some space on my already-full iPod...
Oh, and for those using the BitPerfect player on OS X: I also found out that it only works on audio files locally stored; on networked (Home Sharing) files it just remains stopped, probably because it reads the files directly from the drive and not via iTunes itself...
-- I figured that between being balanced XLR and having a higher output voltage (4.5V vs. RCA 2.25V rms) and the amp pumping much more power into my LCD3s (at its impedance ~1500mW vs ~300mW on my OTL tube amp), the sound would be louder, but I still have to crank things up to ~1-2PM to get a similar sound level... it's not a big deal since it's distortion & noise-free, and a different tube set had me lower it a bit, but I'm still curious as to why it's not louder (the M-DAC volume being close to 0dB)
-- The digital nightmare: the idea was to hook up my rather pricey Cambridge Audio digital dock via optical to the M-DAC, but I ended up with huge amounts of dropouts, I listened to one song and it was like this...lyric...is...almost...inintel...ligible bad. When previously used with CA's own Dacmagic100 it was never that bad, even though it also happened occasionally (M-DAC jitter rejection was set to automatic)
To track down the issue, I switched to coax (jitter being strictly an optical issue?), same result. Rebooted my iPod Classic, used an older one, tried my iPad: same result. Gave up and switched to the much cheaper Pure i20 dock, no more problems for the rest of the evening.
I already took issue with the CA iD100 because of its half-backed iPod support and extremely primitive iPad support even with the latest firmware update, the fact that it locked up randomly with the iPad (confirmed by other users) but this is the last straw. How can something be this bad compared to one 1/3 the price...
Question: Are there other CA iD100 users here that can chime in with their experience, did I get a lemon? (even if it "mostly" works) CA tech support was not helpful at all btw. ("We don't have this problem in our lab")
So I'm looking at another dock (because I like the general idea of it, and the Pure just doesn't fit in well and I have a better use use for it elsewhere) The two choices are the Arcam drDock and the Wadia 171i.
Question: Any users of either of these two here who care to chime in with their experience?
Also the drDock only has digital coax out, which may have electrical interference issues.
Question: Is that a real concern or is it unlikely to cause sound quality issues? Maybe John can chime in with his expertise. (Or, preferring optical, should I just bite the bullet and get the more expensive Wadia which covers everything)
-- Lastly for those using iDevices: I just found out now that while the iPod etc. support 24bit/48kHz lossless playback, the actual output gets truncated to 16bit anyway!!! I learned this because the M-DAC actually displays the bitrate, unlike other DACs I own which either display nothing or just the sampling rate. So I was wondering if that was another issue with my current docks, but as it turns out it is the Apple dock connector output itself!
I verified this by first dropping my iPad in the dock and getting 16-bit output on the M-DAC, then switching to USB via the CC kit and playing back the -same- files now as 24bit (and up 96kHz) That solution is too clunky for me though, but at least now I know I might as well resample my source files as 16bit/48kHz where needed. While the improvement of downsampled & dithered vs. truncated might be debatable (though from what I could gather truncated is worse), at least I'll save some space on my already-full iPod...
Oh, and for those using the BitPerfect player on OS X: I also found out that it only works on audio files locally stored; on networked (Home Sharing) files it just remains stopped, probably because it reads the files directly from the drive and not via iTunes itself...
bigmarcelo
pfm Member
I had the CA dock - its limited to 16/44 - it was fine when I adjusted to high jitter setting on the MDAC ... but you are correct, that it never was an issue with the CA Dac magic plus... but I prefer the sound of the MDAC ...
my workaround is i play 99% of the time out of the SBT, using squeezepad on my ipad.. if I want to stream from my ipad/iphone I have an airport express with digital optical out into the MDAC (the network settings are disabled on the A express)... that works fine on 16/44, on automatic jitter settings...
that said, since changing from a normal streamer to the SBT... the squeezepad app makes it a delight to use ...... I hardly ever stream from my iphone/ipad anymore..... I sold my dock to a friend..
hope this helps..
JohnW
pfm member
You can judge for yourself the level of Jitter the CA iD100 has by the need to select Medium or High from the "Jitter Rejection" option in the MDAC menu.
Apple is extremely secretive – however much can be gleaned from data in the public domain – such as Apple Patent applications.
Currently there are two modes to extract Digital Data from Apple "iDevice's".
The first is now really a "legacy mode" that supports earlier iModels with limited processing power where the function of the USB host controller is performed external (such as with the Wadia, Peachtree, CA iD100 digital extraction docks etc) - in essences an intelligent USB Bridge between a simple "Dumb" iDevice and a "Dumb" DAC - I call it Lingo 10 extraction mode.
Lingo 10 mode is limited to 16bits and up to 48kHz (as far as I can tell from the Patent).
The second and more recent method is to use the Camera Connection Kit (CCK) for the iPad this has a few important benefits:-
1. Compatible with Async DACs via the USB connection (Dac is the Audio Clock master)
2. Supports 24/96kHz (maybe higher)
Reading between the lines with Apple recommending music that's to be distributed via its iTunes store to be forwarded in a HiRes audio format before Apple transcode it for release on there store – suggest that Apple iTunes will support HiRes audio sometime in the future – and I'd guess that Apple is keen to have compatible Audio hardware in place beforehand… Again I’m guessing, but I suspect Lingo 10 mode will be "killed off" (well at least no new design applications approved) – replaced by “Authenticated” USB digital extraction (as with the CCK).
John
JohnW
pfm member
Really excited about the release date of version 0.9 of 1.0. Are we close John? I don't hear anything anymore about sound quality issues etc. Only additional wish that I've read (and longing for) is that we can name the inputs by ourselves, is that right
Yes - a couple of small bug fixes (an error with discrete codes for OPT1/2) and to ignore the first button press when coming out of "screen saver" mode - AND labelling of inputs.
Later add USB to AC3 pass-though, and maybe SPDIF input to USB out (for SPDIF input to your PC).
Also SQ "optimisation" once a get a decent system going - with MPAX & MAMP...
This will be only a "Lakewest" release...
John
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