MDAC First Listen (part 00111000)
- Thread starter PhilCTTE
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JohnW
pfm member
Yes - and it will be interesting to compare...
Hi John, will it be possible to have the DAC section on a daughter board, so one could buy the ESS version and the discreet version, then just open the case and swap the board?
If so then it would be good to try both, then I could always change between them sometimes if I fancied a change.
If so then it would be good to try both, then I could always change between them sometimes if I fancied a change.
I presumed the boards would be interchangeable, will they require different back-plates though?
JohnW
pfm member
Nick,
The DAc section IS on a daughter board - not by choice but as I'd run out of space on the Mainboard after I completed the Analogue stage and PSU.
Luckily this "forced" decision has worked in our favour, so I'm designing both DAC version in parallel to insure I have the physical space and I/O lines etc.
The DAc section IS on a daughter board - not by choice but as I'd run out of space on the Mainboard after I completed the Analogue stage and PSU.
Luckily this "forced" decision has worked in our favour, so I'm designing both DAC version in parallel to insure I have the physical space and I/O lines etc.
JohnW
pfm member
No, the DAC board is mounted above the mainboard so they have no effect on the rear panel which is attached via the connectors to the mainboard.
Do you have any proof there is audible distortion from decent op-amps (blind tests) ? i will take a look and see if i can find anything.
Even with 16 bits of resolution it will still be very difficult to hear the noise, you need a very quiet room and high peak output.
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/08/op-amps-myths-facts.html
Sorry it has taken me a while to get around to this. Do you expect that the transport (presumably without clock-locking) will give better SQ than John's suggestion of plugging a standard USB drive into the streamer? This will have clock-locking automatically.
Wow! When you said you were going to finish the MDAC2 for Munich but didn't, I was starting to wonder if the doubters really were right after all. But hearing what you're planning now, I'm starting to get very excited again (and ultimately I have kept the faith - I did buy a streamer board after all).
It seems as though the MDAC2 will have all the advantages of the FDAC now, apart from a single box solution (which I don't really care about) and DSP - and I suspect somebody will come up with a Volumio plug-in for this well before John even starts the FDAC.
I definitely want the PDM200 option, and I'm very excited about the DaCapo Anniversary option (I remember lusting after this beauty back in the day, but I could scarcely afford it then). However, I am very curious about a few things:
1) Is the volume control the same type of digital control the SABRE has (a 32 bit control in 1dB steps)?
2) How would you describe the sonic differences between it and the ESS 9028?
3) If you couldn't fit an ESS 9018-based design in the MDAC case, how on earth will you fit a discreet DAC?
It seems as though the MDAC2 will have all the advantages of the FDAC now, apart from a single box solution (which I don't really care about) and DSP - and I suspect somebody will come up with a Volumio plug-in for this well before John even starts the FDAC.
I definitely want the PDM200 option, and I'm very excited about the DaCapo Anniversary option (I remember lusting after this beauty back in the day, but I could scarcely afford it then). However, I am very curious about a few things:
1) Is the volume control the same type of digital control the SABRE has (a 32 bit control in 1dB steps)?
2) How would you describe the sonic differences between it and the ESS 9028?
3) If you couldn't fit an ESS 9018-based design in the MDAC case, how on earth will you fit a discreet DAC?
JohnW
pfm member
Wow! When you said you were going to finish the MDAC2 for Munich but didn't, I was starting to wonder if the doubters really were right after all. But hearing what you're planning now, I'm starting to get very excited again (and ultimately I have kept the faith - I did buy a streamer board after all).
It seems as though the MDAC2 will have all the advantages of the FDAC now, apart from a single box solution (which I don't really care about) and DSP - and I suspect somebody will come up with a Volumio plug-in for this well before John even starts the FDAC.
I definitely want the PDM200 option, and I'm very excited about the DaCapo Anniversary option (I remember lusting after this beauty back in the day, but I could scarcely afford it then). However, I am very curious about a few things:
1) Is the volume control the same type of digital control the SABRE has (a 32 bit control in 1dB steps)?
For the discrete DAC we will use the Digital volume control section of the PMD200 - which supports 1dB steps.
We have alot of listening experience now of the ESS9018 & dual ESS9038Q2M's. The newer HyperstreamII ESS9038Q2M sound better then the 1st Gen ESS9018 especially with DSD, but the differences are "small" especially when compared to say changing speakers. For sure its nice to have the improvement, but its diminishing returns.
When we listen to PMD100 / Discrete Dacapo DAC it just killed the ESS Dac's.
Foot tapping Bass, holographic sound stage, fine texture to vocals, realism, Crowds clapping not pelting rain... it was very very obvious we had to offer the discrete DAC option.
The MDAC2 has multiple layers of PCB internally (DAC Daughter board is mounted above main board), streamer and ADC are separate "above mounted" PCB's and the HQ external PSU reduces the required area of the "internal" PSU circuits.
As I write this, the Air-conditioning is being installed in the lab (we only had the internal units fitted) the external unit is now being installed and the system Gassed to insure a stable climate for the mini SMD production "line".
While the PnP machine will arrive in September, last week we hand built prototype PCB's using some of the recently installed production equipment and it was for sure faster (even while we are still learning), but also the build quality was far higher - its nice to see some return on the recent "mass" investment in production equipment.
The Aircons now switched on and working
- its nice to be "civilised" once again. These past few weeks the lab wound reach 29 / 30DegC and both Jarek and I could not get much work done in the heat!
fred sonnen
pfm Member
You are writing just about the 200. Some of us bought and send you the 100. Isn't the 100 within your plans?
JohnW
pfm member
The ESS9018 and ESS9038Q2M have a "House Sound" you can tell they are honed from the same roots - the difference in quality between the discrete DAC & the Dual ESS9038's is so great that I don't believe that there is anychance the 9028Pros will be able to close the chasm.
JohnW
pfm member
Fred,
With the PMD200 can support upto 192KHz - and I have it on good trusted authority that its better sounding then the PMD100.
jadidih101
pfm Member
The fact that you are doing actual listening test is great news. Great work.
Does your testing of ESS/Dacapo with PDM100 only apply to HDCD media? How do other sources (such as normal CD, FLAC) compare using ESS or Dacapo? is there the same amount of difference/improvement?
Glad to hear you are cool again
Something is not right here, there is 3 possibilities
-the ess design you have developed is flawed, if this is the case you should measure high noise floor, THD or bad frequency response.
-placebo effect due to signed listening tests.
-you are(despite your age) being able to hear a difference in frequency response due to different dac filter, if that is the case the diffetence you hear should vanish at higher sampling rate.
Higher fidelity does not always sound better, i once blindtested 44.1 vs 96 and i preferred the downsampled version 30 of 43 times.
I am pretty sure you could connect 100 mdac2:s(ess version) in series(each converting analog -> digital -> analog) and incert them after your preferred dac and you would still fail ti hear aky difference.
May I suggest when possible, try to listen to a discrete DAC implementation?
As mentioned earlier in this thread I currently have a discrete DAC and I would fully concur with JohnW's findings when doing comparisons against 'off the shelf' silicon.
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