Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Ah yes, buzzing! There was me irritated by the ringing from our glass lamp shades. Fortunately Tasha disliked them too from an aesthetic pov.
I take it a concrete floor was out of the question.
MDAC First Listen (part 00100001)
- Thread starter stellablues
- Start date
- Status
Ah yes, buzzing! There was me irritated by the ringing from our glass lamp shades. Fortunately Tasha disliked them too from an aesthetic pov.
I take it a concrete floor was out of the question.
Morph3R
pfm Member
What about EVA foam sheets as Rubber alternative?
To my ears, Concrete gives different problems/characteristics; it's not really better
(I'd personally rather start with the wood floors)
IIRC John's lab is on the 1st floor
Is there really a problem with the rubber? (Apart from maybe its lifetime)
What would be the practical differences (vibrationally and acoustically) with eva?
JohnW
pfm member
Well when I say Rubber, I doubt its natural Rubber, rather a thin 5mm sheet used to fill unwanted voids between mating surfaces - its designed for the building trade.
JohnW
pfm member
Yes, my lab's on the "Ground floor" or 1st floor (depending upon your terminology in your part of the world) - with the listening room above on the Second floor.
The idea is that the listening room can also double as a spare room (with a toilet downstairs) if anyone wants to pop over on the cheap to collect / service there unit, Air-conditioned, Balcony, "decent system" they can use the sofa bed in the "listening room" and stay a night
Yes, my lab's on the "Ground floor" or 1st floor (depending upon your terminology in your part of the world) - with the listening room above on the Second floor.
The idea is that the listening room can also double as a spare room (with a toilet downstairs) if anyone wants to pop over on the cheap to collect / service there unit, Air-conditioned, Balcony, "decent system" they can use the sofa bed in the "listening room" and stay a night
I actually meant the listening room is on the upper floor as you described and therefore a concrete floor on an upstairs room wouldn't work too well!
- made a right mess of that post didn't I
davidjt
pfm Member
John,
Following a link on another thread, I've been reading Roger Sanders's contention on his website that some speakers, particularly ESLs, need an amp capable of producing >500W to ensure that o/p transistor protection circuits are never triggered and no clipping ever takes place. Any thoughts?
Following a link on another thread, I've been reading Roger Sanders's contention on his website that some speakers, particularly ESLs, need an amp capable of producing >500W to ensure that o/p transistor protection circuits are never triggered and no clipping ever takes place. Any thoughts?
JohnW
pfm member
David,
Thats kind of a crazy statement, if one starts thinking along those lines then there will never be an upper limit - I used to drive my Martin Logan CLS with a 30W amplifier for over 10 years - few amps bettered it sonically, it just depends on design + how loud one plays....
Going from a 250W amplifier to 500W only gains you an increase of 3dB in output level - this is not going to save anyone! (try +3dB on the MDAC level control).
Whats important is its peak current delivery - the VFET amp will have multiple paralleled output devices in its dumper section & multiple paralleled reservoir capacitors in the PSU to enable high peak current delivery + a correctly design output stage protection circuit.
"Watts" into an unspecified load does not differentiate between Current or Voltage - and what's required in most cases is peak current (ESLs tend to have Low impedance dips that will upset trigger happy protection circuits).
The great advantage of the MOSFET Dumper stage is its freedom from secondary breakdown, which allows a less aggressive output stage protection circuit - I'll be designing the VFET Amp. to drive my ML CLSIIz's
Thats kind of a crazy statement, if one starts thinking along those lines then there will never be an upper limit - I used to drive my Martin Logan CLS with a 30W amplifier for over 10 years - few amps bettered it sonically, it just depends on design + how loud one plays....
Going from a 250W amplifier to 500W only gains you an increase of 3dB in output level - this is not going to save anyone! (try +3dB on the MDAC level control).
Whats important is its peak current delivery - the VFET amp will have multiple paralleled output devices in its dumper section & multiple paralleled reservoir capacitors in the PSU to enable high peak current delivery + a correctly design output stage protection circuit.
"Watts" into an unspecified load does not differentiate between Current or Voltage - and what's required in most cases is peak current (ESLs tend to have Low impedance dips that will upset trigger happy protection circuits).
The great advantage of the MOSFET Dumper stage is its freedom from secondary breakdown, which allows a less aggressive output stage protection circuit - I'll be designing the VFET Amp. to drive my ML CLSIIz's
PhilCTTE
Senior mumbler
So tempted to go for these vfet's, but feel that I would need to spend nearly three times as much on speakers which would do them justice.
Even perhaps some second hand Martin Logan's Summit X' s , but these are 10k for a reasonable pair.
JTC's ATC SCM100's???
Can't pull the trigger till I know what my listening room will be after moving later this year
O
Will find out tomorrow what the car will cost to repair , just been quoted 3.6k , for new master cylinder and head gasket. Perhaps the next time a red light appears on the dash , she will take notice. Which has just put the brakes on my munich beer fest trip...
Even perhaps some second hand Martin Logan's Summit X' s , but these are 10k for a reasonable pair.
JTC's ATC SCM100's???
Can't pull the trigger till I know what my listening room will be after moving later this year
O
Will find out tomorrow what the car will cost to repair , just been quoted 3.6k , for new master cylinder and head gasket. Perhaps the next time a red light appears on the dash , she will take notice. Which has just put the brakes on my munich beer fest trip...
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
I have a feeling that ATCs, whilst good monitors and enjoyable in their own right, are designed not to show up DAC differences...
Seriously
PhilCTTE
Senior mumbler
Hmm never heard them, but even my modest b&w 8 sig nt's inwalls can reveal the improvements made from upgrading the Mdac to Mdac L3 fusion. Speakers of that size really need the room to let them "strut their stuff". Most uk front rooms struggle!
Which is why I want to home demo this time and experiment with smaller monitors such as the MK S150's with two subs versus full range and electrostats
Which is why I want to home demo this time and experiment with smaller monitors such as the MK S150's with two subs versus full range and electrostats
Utter Tripe.
'Cmon Steve, you can do better than that . . .
How come ATC 'speakers are used by so many professionals around the world for critical monitoring of the very music you pay good money to buy ?
pillock
lol!
My ATCs must be faulty then, for I can quite clearly hear differences between DACs with them.
The ATC midrange unit was designed before CDs and digital audio existed.
Paolo Anziano
Active Member
I've got a Rega Fono A2D and I was trying to connect the USB directly to the MDAC, but it seems there is no way to match it: it only works when passing through a PC with Audacity software (or similar) to record. Does everybody knows if it is possible for MDAC to detect it directly ? Or will the MDAC2 be able to ?
Sorry if it is a silly question, I could not find the answer in the forum....
Furthermore, I'll go for the L4 so I knows that there will be an analogue line-in on the MDAC2 and also (if I well understood) a RIAA EQ, it is just to know....
Sorry if it is a silly question, I could not find the answer in the forum....
Furthermore, I'll go for the L4 so I knows that there will be an analogue line-in on the MDAC2 and also (if I well understood) a RIAA EQ, it is just to know....
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
The ATC midrange dome is indeed glorious.
A number of ATC owners are reporting no differences between DACs and I do believe that Bob Polly once stated that digital sources were immaterial. He might have been following the footsteps of a former marketing man of course with an occasional predilection for hyperbole...
I am not one of them. fwiw I certainly heard the differences between two MDACs and a Lavry DA11 and a Benchmark DAC1 on my ATCs - the MDACs being the poorest by some margin imo.
But to suggest that Billy Woodman sat down years before DACs were actually in use and said to himself "I'll design some speakers which mask the differences between DACs" is just utterly absurd.
Two different stock MDACs. The first one I had sounded pretty poor so it went back; given the enthusiasm on here especially I thought it would be fair to try another sample a while later. Still didn't do it for me. Have since read on one of these threads that the balanced output of the MDAC might not be as good as it could be - perhaps that was why I wan't impressed, or perhaps there is production variation. But my ATCs were certainly good enough for me to believe I heard a difference between the MDACs and the two other DACs I mention. Given that Stephen Toy says (albeit without any evidence, knowledge, expertise or qualification) that ATCs are designed to hide the differences between DACs I am now worried that my ATCs might be faulty. Or maybe not.
- Status