MDAC First Listen (part 00100001)

[JTC]

A number of ATC owners are reporting no differences between DACs

Source? Though I'm willing to concede that the difference that DAC implementations make may be obscured by the other differences between common DACs, such as preamp stages and the like. I am also certain that those differences might be unreliably detected given non direct comparisons.

 

[JTC]

I have a feeling that ATCs, whilst good monitors and enjoyable in their own right, are designed not to show up DAC differences...

Don't be silly. They're designed to be truthful, and so if differences exist there are few speakers more capable of relaying those differences. At least as far as I've encountered.

 

[TimR]

So tempted to go for these vfet's, but feel that I would need to spend nearly three times as much on speakers which would do them justice.

Not that I'm trying to get you to spend your money Phil, but there's another way to look at it..

With me, I don't have any immediate plans to upgrade the speakers, but I'm really looking forward to hearing for the first time what my existing speakers (not to mention MDAC) are capable of.

The second benefit of course is that it positions me to upgrade the speakers later on (when the time/finances are right) confident in the knowledge that the amps can do justice to the upgrade. I can't say that about my existing amp, so until that part of my system has evolved, my options are limited.

In a nutshell, except for the very well off, all upgrades start somewhere, right?

I'm hoping John's VFET amps will see me out, to be honest (availability of replacement parts permitting)!
( Sorry for any added pressure John )

 

[iansr]

I had reached the point where I thought my Ncores would see me out, but if anything has the potential to outperform them (that I can afford) i think it could be the VFET amps.

Sorry John, but you knew that already didn't you !

 

[JohnW]

Sorry John, but you knew that already didn't you !

Oh Yes

 

[JohnW]

I've got a Rega Fono A2D and I was trying to connect the USB directly to the MDAC, but it seems there is no way to match it: it only works when passing through a PC with Audacity software (or similar) to record. Does everybody knows if it is possible for MDAC to detect it directly ?

Both the Rega Fono A2D and the MDAC are Slave USB devices - they can only be connected to a Master device (USB Host) such as a computer.

Or will the MDAC2 be able to?

The MDAC2 L3 has an internal ADC so will not require an external ADC.

Furthermore, I'll go for the L4 so I knows that there will be an analogue line-in on the MDAC2 and also (if I well understood) a RIAA EQ, it is just to know....

The MDAC2 L3, ADC version = Analogue inputs will require a Phono Pre-amplifier - later I'll release a Phono Gain stage with an EQ bypass option so RIAA EQ can be performed in the Digital domain.

 

[JohnW]

I'm hoping John's VFET amps will see me out, to be honest (availability of replacement parts permitting)!
( Sorry for any added pressure John )

Tim

The VFET amps will come with a lifetime warranty (subject to parts availability)

 

[TimR]

Super news!

....I won't ask whose lifetime we're taliking about

 

[PhilCTTE]

I can see your thinking Tim in getting the Vfet amp from John now, and sort speakers later, which will be fine as long as I don't go for actives like the ATC's SCM 100's.

At least the car isn't as terminal as main dealer made out !! Got a second opinion and saved my self several thousands . New water pump not engine! Just waiting on final tests now to be 100% sure. But looks like I,m solvent once more

 

[TimR]

Yep, maybe not such a good idea to be spending money on new amps if you're considering actives! Good news about the car though

 

[Rosewind]

Aren't ATCs available as passives? The mono amps can be placed close to the speakers if that is the case. I bet the Vfets will be up to it.
Just a thought.
Peter

 

[PhilCTTE]

Yes they are , but not the ones in the classifieds

My point was that buying the vfet without knowing which speaker I will be looking at would rule out actives .

Looking at three options probably to suit a normal uk front room 17*12ft ~(ish)

1. Satellite - 2.2 with M&K S300 or S150's plus undecided subs
2. ATC's 100's (JTC's active version)
3. Electrostatics (second hand Martin Logan Summit x)

 

[LarsS]

The MDAC2 L3, ADC version = Analogue inputs will require a Phono Pre-amplifier - later I'll release a Phono Gain stage with an EQ bypass option so RIAA EQ can be performed in the Digital domain.

I'll try the following when MDAC2 L3 arrives: TT into Norma Revo IPA-140 Phono inputs, then reassign Input 2 as Output into MDAC2 and then from MDAC2 back into the Norma Revo amp. Many cables but few boxes ...

/Lars

 

[Rosewind]

Yes they are , but not the ones in the classifieds

Ah OK.

I read in German Audio (hifi mag) that ATC speakers - like the ones you are considering - are capable of better sound as passives with better amps than the active versions. That was the reviewer's opinion, but I supose that it may difficult to better the built in amps without spending considerably more money.

I favour Magnepans and haven't listened to Martin Logans for more than a fleeting moment. I would never be able to get a pair of those through the door to our living room. My wife would go through the roof. I think I just might be able to get a set of off white Magnepans into the living room + subs. My wife has seen how inconspicuous my MC1s are in my study and has commented on how good they sound with my two Dynaudio subs. So there is hope.

Good luck with your upcoming ATCs, the same that once wereon my radar as an upgrade of my active LINN Ninkas + Nap 200.

Peter

 

[Stuart Frazer]

I've been off these pages for a few months. What is the latest timescales for delivery of the MDAC2? Are we looking before or after Christmas?

 

[JohnW]

Stuart,

Production is scheduled the weeks before Christmas, its hard to give a 100% timescales - much will depend upon component sourcing - I will issue the BOM for the analogue PCB as soon as its completed in the next month and half or so.

There will be a lot of movement towards production in the weeks upto Christmas - I'll be more certain once I've completed the Analogue PCB design which I'm working on ATM.

 

[Timcat]

I have been playing around using different music players and computers with my MDAC.

I have used an Intel atom based PC running Vortexbox (uses Logitec Media Server and Linux ALSA), a Windows 8.1 PC running JRiver and Foobar 2000 (both WASAPI) and a Raspberry Pi running Runeaudio (Arch Linux based). All pass the bit perfect test at 44.1kHz, 16 bit and 96kHz, 24 bit, with the original wav files and Flac encoded versions.

The Vortexbox and PC (both players) seem to sound the same to me, or at least, each time I think I've heard a difference, when I try again, it's gone! However, the Pi seems sound a little courser and less detailed. Given that all the set ups have passed the bit perfect test, this seems a little odd. It could of course be “audiophile nervosa” (the little £25 computer cannot be as good as the £200 atom or £400 PC and this prejudice manifests itself in a perceived difference in performance that is not actually there!), but I don't think so.

I understood that all bit perfect players should sound the same with an asynchronous DAC like the MDAC, but is this really correct?

Some companies allege that bit perfect players can sound different (e.g. JPlay: http://www.jplay.eu), but are they just snake oil salesmen, like those who tell us that £100 USB cables are better than normal Maplin ones?

Could it be that there is some electrical noise (analogue) getting into the M-DAC from the Pi along the USB cable? I had this problem with a CDQ and solved it with a USB isolator board from Olimex.

Anyone any thoughts?

 

[Julf]

The Vortexbox and PC (both players) seem to sound the same to me, or at least, each time I think I've heard a difference, when I try again, it's gone! However, the Pi seems sound a little courser and less detailed. Given that all the set ups have passed the bit perfect test, this seems a little odd. It could of course be “audiophile nervosa” (the little £25 computer cannot be as good as the £200 atom or £400 PC and this prejudice manifests itself in a perceived difference in performance that is not actually there!), but I don't think so.

A simple double-blind ABX would settle it once and for all.

I understood that all bit perfect players should sound the same with an asynchronous DAC like the MDAC, but is this really correct?

Yes.

Some companies allege that bit perfect players can sound different (e.g. JPlay: http://www.jplay.eu), but are they just snake oil salesmen, like those who tell us that £100 USB cables are better than normal Maplin ones?

Yes.

Could it be that there is some electrical noise (analogue) getting into the M-DAC from the Pi along the USB cable? I had this problem with a CDQ and solved it with a USB isolator board from Olimex.

I find it unlikely that any significant noise would get through to a DAC as well-designed as the MDAC, but it is even more unlikely that that noise would be affected by the player software. Even if it would, the effect would very much depend on the particular computer, CPU and OS configuration. You don't see the vendors and proponents specify the specific circumstances where you would see an improvement - magically the software is supposed to always sound better.

 

[sq225917]

It's easy for noise to pass to the dac from the source pc, and equally easy to block it for less than the price of an inexpensive cable.

 

[jirij]

Not sure about the ease of blocking the noise, but some noise is indeed there. Actually, so much of it and in a controller enough pattern to allow others crack your encryption keys just by listening to it!
(the attack has many variations, like listening on an ethernet cable or simply "touching" the lid of a laptop -- and it works on smartphones as well)

This means that the player software could have the ability to significantly affect the noise output (however by *adding* noise, not removing it), but since it often uses very little CPU power and since the noise output depends on many other factors (from more hungry applications to variations in hardware), I wouldn't worry about it. Just use what you find best, functionality-wise, be that foobar2000, jriver, jplay or windows media player .

And if you want to go the extra mile, focus on filtering out the noise between the computer and the DAC, not by limiting yourself to some software player or by buying special computers.