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MDAC First Listen (part 00100001)

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the original firmware of qdac is the same to original firmware of mdac?

The MDAC and QDAC are very different designs, the software is incompatible.

Many moons ago a designer from IAG China was posting here asking in-depth technical question about the MDAC - in hindsight it was to help them debug the QDAC design :D
 
Hi John,
I also have an interest in the VFET's but already have a pair of MB8200s (gathering dust) is there any possibility of an MDAC2 solution? where you provide completed circuit boards for installation to my existing cases.
Like sam_cat I also have a pair of nCore400's and a Bryston 4B and would be very interested in an expected comparison.
For example, I wouldn't criticise either amplifier over the other, they just sound different particularly with different source material.

Chris

Chris,

Oh, I wonder why your not using your MB's :D :D :p

I'd be happy to update your units and deduct the price of the donor MB's from the cost - but a simple PCB replacement is not practical as there is much more involved in the re-build of the original MB's (For starters the heatsink has to be machined to mount a pair of VFET's).

PM me if your interested (Were are you located?)

I'm looking forward to the comparison against the nCores :) the best of ClassD against a pure analogue design.
 
Michael,

Glad its arrived :) - wonder if you will notice any difference in SQ from its original form - I added x3 organic capacitors on a digital supply rail...

Mind you, as you have a Fusion unit its always going to be a distant second best!
 
The MDAC and QDAC are very different designs, the software is incompatible.

Many moons ago a designer from IAG China was posting here asking in-depth technical question about the MDAC - in hindsight it was to help them debug the QDAC design :D

which one the best? why?
 
John, I am very interested to jump on board with the vfet amps, is there still a possibility (30 pairs does not go very far)? Could you send me the details?

Sounds like you are running this in parallel with the MDAC project, can you manage it all?!
 
which one the best? why?

Please understand that I did not design the QDAC - its considered poor form to criticise the work of others, so I shall be graceful with my words.

I shall make a few comments:-

The MDAC uses the flagship ESS9018 - while the QDAC uses the significantly cheaper ESS9016

QDAC does not offer a true Asycn USB connection - while the USB circuit is Async it is not locked to the DAC's clock. So while they can claim Async USB - it does not offer the "Jitter Free" interface of a "true" Async connection.

The Cirrus Logic SPDIF input receiver has much worst jitter attenuation then the Wolfson 8805 used in the MDAC - also the MDAC has 3 stages of Jiitter attenuation, the QDAC only 2.

QDAC has no Balanced XLR Analogue outputs.

The MDAC has a fully discrete JFET ClassA stage, the QDAC uses Opamps.

The MDAC has multi rail discrete regulators - the QDAC uses conventional regulators.

The MDAC offers input level meters, bit perfect test, upgradable software, D3E, true input sample rate, CD Track / Time indication - large graphic display etc. QDAC offers non of these.

The QDAC is a cheap design - its only advantage (asides from the 192KHz USB support), is that it offers higher profit margins.

In my opinion its ultimately a false economy to buy the cheaper QDAC when you can buy a fully featured MDAC for a few hundred pounds extra.
 
John, I am very interested to jump on board with the vfet amps, is there still a possibility (30 pairs does not go very far)? Could you send me the details?

Sounds like you are running this in parallel with the MDAC project, can you manage it all?!

TonyB,

Basically the last couple of units – it looks like I'll be building around 10 pairs of these amps (excluding my own units).

Yes - they will be designed in parallel with the MDAC2 project as I’ll need a decent pair of "reference" grade amps to evaluate the MDAC2. It will also be nice to have an Amp / DAC combination that I have designed myself to work together as a system - at least I can have confidence in the DAC / Amp combination.

WRT to the MDAC2 design I find that I can only work effectively (concentrate) on the design for the first 6 to 8 hours each day, after that I tend to slow down so being able to work on something different will "boost" my spirits.

Managing myself is not my strongest point - for sure I'll be pushing my limits come Christmas, however I tend to work best under a little pressure. Actually, the Amps are a much easier project to the MDAC2 – also much easier for me as I can hand build them on my lab bench without needing to work with an external SMD subcontractor – I can also source the components here in Europe (for the MDAC2 I need to arrange certain critical components from Asia due to cost and availability)…

Sure, I’ll be talking to myself in harsh tones while I’m hand building the PCB’s – but I’ll be very proud of them once they are completed, just as with all my designs :)

The final design is subject to refinement (just as the MDAC2 'features' have developed as I've progressed with the design), here is the general overview of the design:-

These amplifiers are intended to serve as my own “Reference units” and designed to drive my Martin Logan’s CLSIIz’s with their notorious 0.5 Ohm impedance dip at HF. Due to the limited availability of the VFET’s, Tubes & Vertical MOSFET’s used in the current Dumper section they are sadly limited in numbers to around 10 to 20 pairs.

The amplifier topology will be based upon a JAN6112 high gain, Military grade miniature Triode used in the input Diff Stage – this “gain block” is based upon the unique circuit I’ve developed for the TDAC – it’s a fully balanced, direct coupled circuit (with no interstage coupling capacitors) – the circuit operates in high impedence‘Current mode’ to achieve the highest linearity from the Tube.

The Tube Gain stage drives the VFETs operating in ClassA (about 5W) this is coupled to the speaker load via a Bridge “sensing” circuit (AKA Quad Current Dumping). The ClassA stage via the bridge circuit controls the operation of the MOSFET Current Dumpers – Basically the current dumpers’ ‘Bootstrap’ the VFET ClassA stage, so that the VFETS ‘believe’ they are driving a fixed 5W load at all times.

While operating within normal signal limits, the ClassA stage delivers 5W +/- a small error signal that compensates for any non linearity of the current Dumper section which will be typically less then 0.01%.

The VFET ClassA stage delivers the first 5W to the speakers with the “Dumpers” providing the balance. As the Current Dumpers are controlled via the ClassA stage (the ClassA stage is always delivering the first 5W, even when “idling” with no audio signal), the Amplifiers sound quality is determined by the VFETs :) This allows high power from a single pair of VFETs’ – also, the “precious” VFETS are protected from external adverse load conditions.

Target output power is 200W to 250W – with balanced XLR inputs (which can be used with single ended sources).

The Current dumpers Mosfets are NOS vertical Hitachi's, sadly limited stock (I still have a small stock from a project my father and I had planned for Pink Triangle).

It’s a low feedback design (the Feedforward Bridge helps to maintain the output stage linearity), yet despite low feedback will meet a target THD of 0.005% at 1W, 1KHz.

These Amplifiers are very much a ‘background’ project (while the MDAC2 takes shape) – this also allows me time to perfect the design; hopefully the first units will be built around Christmas (this year) :) As these VFET Amps and MDAC2 are being developed together at the same time, they will be designed sonically to complement each other.

The VFET based amps are pretty costly as they are handbuilt "custom designs", I'm building them to serve as my reference amps to aid in the development of MDAC2.... however so long as I can purchase the VFETs then I'm more then happy to also build them for others :)

The price is GBP3500 for a pair of Monoblocks (in Silver or Black), the cost is split into two payments, the first for £2300 is partially used to secure the new donor 8200MB's, VFET's & Tubes etc – and the balance of £1200 would be payable once the final units are being constructed towards the end of the year – in time for Christmas.

These amps will be Reference grade units designed to achieve the very best with the MDAC2 / TDAC...

PM me if your interested in reserving a pair.
 
John, a plea to make the little extension unit with additional connections for the MDAC2 L2/3 available as soon as possible after the main unit, if not at the same time. I had originally thought I'd go for L1, for a number of reasons, but when I explained the features and pricing of L2 and L3 to my wife, she said she favoured going for L3. So L3 it is. But we already use three S/PDIF inputs on our vanilla MDAC ...

Clerenlas,

Over the weekend I confirmed the MDAC2's rear panel connector arrangement - taking into consideration your request.


Connector arrangement on the lower Analogue PCB:-

Left channel Balanced XLR output - (Full Size Male XLR)

Left channel RCA Output

Left channel RCA AV Bypass input (With the option to ordered with 3W Miniature Male XLR fitted instead for Balanced AV Bypass)

Left channel ADC input (L3 MDAC), 3W Miniature Male XLR

Stereo Balanced Headphone output - 5W Miniature Male XLR

Right channel ADC input (L3 MDAC), 3W Miniature Male XLR

Right channel RCA AV Bypass input (With the option to ordered with 3W Miniature Male XLR fitted instead for Balanced AV Bypass)

Right channel RCA Output

Right channel Balanced XLR output - (Full Size Male XLR)


Connector arrangement on the upper Digital PCB:-

Mini "HDMI Type" Expansion connector for optional external expansion pod or direct connection to external streamer / transport.

Optical SPDIF input 1

Optical SPDIF input 2

Optical Clock-Lock output

Optical SPDIF output

USB 2.0

Coax BNC SPDIF output (supplied with an adaptor for RCA)

Coax BNC SPDIF input 2 or selectable Wordclock / external clock input (supplied with an adaptor for RCA)

Coax BNC SPDIF input 1 (supplied with an adaptor for RCA)

2x 3.5mm Isolated "Bus" connectors.

To squeeze the above connector arrangement onto the MDAC's rear panel I had to sacrifice the full sized XLR's (for the ADC and Balanced headphones) to Miniature XLR types - but otherwise its offers pretty decent I/O connectivity.

Also, I've decided that it will be more sensible to offer the MDAC2 L4 (the Linux based streamer solution) in a second MDAC sized chassis - this will include the HQ PSU for the streamer section, optional CD/DVD/ BlueRay drive + optional HDD / SSD.

There will be a dedicated interface on the MDAC2's rear panel to optimise the performance of the system (Clock clocking etc). I change my mind for several reasons:-

1. I'm concerned about the sonic effects of RF radiated from the MCU board and WiFi etc. on the MDAC2's audio performance - there is little space to offer adequate RF screening.

2. There will be no need to replace the L2 / L3 digital board at a later data - they now will be compatible with the external streamer from initial release.

3. The streamer can be housed as a one box solution with its PSU and optional CD/DVD/Blueray drive + HDD/SDD option. I might also be able to include the HQ MDAC2 PSU option in the same chassis.

4. Lack of space on the MDAC2's rear panel for full digital I/O's with the additional connector space required for the streamer.

5. The streamer will become obsolescent faster then the DAC...

Hopefully I've covered the fundamental requirements...
 
Also, I've decided that it will be more sensible to offer the MDAC2 L4 (the Linux based streamer solution) in a second MDAC sized chassis - this will include the HQ PSU for the streamer section, optional CD/DVD/ BlueRay drive + optional HDD / SSD.

This feels a good decision
 
Hi John,

Since you didn't mention SMA female connector on Digital PCB I assume that both Bluetooth and Wireless USB is also moving to L4 Streaming Extension Unit? (I support this :) )

Also maybe we should consider new name for this "unit" since in this development MDAC2 L4 isn't appropriate. Maybe something like MDAC2 X1 or MDAC2 SX :D

Cheers,
Branislav
 
John
I think that's a great decision. The idea of including a disc drive and SDD slot is brilliant.
The only question is where will the chassis come from? Perhaps a recently superseded blu ray player that can be picked up cheap from somewhere like Richer Sounds?
Ian
 
John
I think that's a great decision. The idea of including a disc drive and SDD slot is brilliant.
The only question is where will the chassis come from? Perhaps a recently superseded blu ray player that can be picked up cheap from somewhere like Richer Sounds?
Ian

Ian,

We still have extrusion tooling in China from our earlier efforts to manufacture the MDAC CD transport / PSU / Amps etc... we could resurrect this.

We will have to work with the vendor for the MDAC2 rear panel anyway...

Dread...
 
Hi John,

Since you didn't mention SMA female connector on Digital PCB I assume that both Bluetooth and Wireless USB is also moving to L4 Streaming Extension Unit? (I support this :) )

Also maybe we should consider of new name for this "unit" since in this development MDAC2 L4 isn't appropriate. Maybe something like MDAC2 X1 or MDAC2 SX :D

Cheers,
Branislav

Still really not decided if we will include the original idea of BT on L2 and wireless USB on L3 units now that we have a streamer solution - I'll consider everyone's feedback on this...
 
Still really not decided if we will include the original idea of BT on L2 and wireless USB on L3 units now that we have a streamer solution - I'll consider everyone's feedback on this...

I vote for: move BT and wireless USB to streamer unit!
 
Does this mean the clock input will be available on all versions?

The more I think about it, the more I prefer everything wireless as an external solution.
 
John,

Do you think using an AES to S/PDIF adapter (with impedance correction) would allow to transport 24 bit signals on the MDAC2?

The more I think about it, the more I prefer everything wireless as an external solution.
Me too.
 
I also prefer the wireless stuff in the streamer box.

Like the idea of the HQ MDAC2 PSU in the streamer box.
 
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