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MDAC First Listen (part 00100000)

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Graham,

I'm workig on your unit ATM, hopefully I'll complete it in the early hours.

I was in for a shock when I first opened your unit - it predates even the Toy upgraded units - so basically I have to rebuild the whole Analogue stage - I'd forgotten how involved the whole process had become - the analogue stage is stripped almost bare before I start the "rebuild"

Horrid, horrid work...

If I complete your MDAC tonight then I can start on the MDAC2 PCB tomorrow - I'm now itching to start testing it :)
 
Graham,

Well, I was too optimistic - it needs more then a day to upgrade your board - I need to get some sleep, still I hope to complete it later today...
 
Thanks for this John. It does seems to be 44,100- although it reads this without the clock out too. Perhaps the 170.3 just has a really well designed output. As a matter of interest which Cambridge transport did you design?

The jitter meter sounds like a great idea, I haven't heard of this feature anywhere else.

Hallo Adamdea

For me it seams so that with the 170.3 you get no added value.
You are not sure if the clock lock works.
My understanding is that you don't note a better sound.
So with MDAC1 what is you practical thought about the 170.3?
don't get me wrong, I am also interested in the 170.3. But I seams to be an invest in a uncertain benefit with the mdac2 in the future.

what are your thoughts?

regards
f.s.
 
Hallo Adamdea

For me it seams so that with the 170.3 you get no added value.
You are not sure if the clock lock works.
My understanding is that you don't note a better sound.
So with MDAC1 what is you practical thought about the 170.3?
don't get me wrong, I am also interested in the 170.3. But I seams to be an invest in a uncertain benefit with the mdac2 in the future.

what are your thoughts?

regards
f.s.
Fred I think you may be asking the wrong person for veil lifting, inky blackness reports. My guess is that it is working because the results vary (as to whether it works) depending on the clock back. The 170.3 is a very solidly engineered piece of work. It appears looking at the service manual as though someone has really tried to design a proper transport. It appears that its internal clock is pretty accurate*. In terms of detecting differences with clock locking, that could, ironically, be its weakness

I have not noticed any great sonic change with the clock link back in place, but I haven't tried very hard either. Most of my listening at the moment is through very unsatisfactory speakers.

My own position on this is simply that I think that it's the correct way of connecting a CD transport to a dac. If you are going to connect a CD transport to a dac, it's the way to do it. I regard it is an insurance policy against things going wrong not a guarantor of better sound quality. Same reason I use toslink to connect my dac and why, if I do use coax connection, I use a lead designed for the purpose not a coathanger. I have never heard the difference between any two transports or connection methods into any dac I have owned, although it is possible that I just haven't learnt how to. Equally if CD transports do sound different then I can't see how any CD transport could realistically be any better than a clock-locked one and optically isolated one.

But that's just me. I am considering offering this up for some sort of bakeoff to see whether more sensitive and highly evolved people than me who can hear differences between transports can detect this one, or even better teach me how to. I will not be able to host though as I will have building work for the next 6 months at least. Alternatively I would be happy to send it off to John if he wants to play with it or perhaps to others.

With the M-dac 2 a clock locked transport will make more sense and/or be more demonstrable because
1) it will be possible to take out the ASRC I believe.
2) it will be possible to measure the jitter

No doubt John will correct me if I have got this wrong.


* as a matter of interest John, is it possible for the M-dac reading of actual sample rate to have resolution below 1Hz? Just wondering, since the 170.3 reads 44,100 whether clock locked or not.
 
Graham,

Well, I was too optimistic - it needs more then a day to upgrade your board - I need to get some sleep, still I hope to complete it later today...

No problem John, Im just glad its being done...many thanks.

Graham
 
No problem John, Im just glad its being done...many thanks.

Graham

Your unit in "original" MDAC L2 form:-

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/Origianl Mod.JPG

The analogue stage completely stripped and PCB cleaned - ready for rebuild:-

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/Stripped.JPG

And finally rebuilt to the latest Fusion Sec:-

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/Fusioned.JPG

You units now on final test and will be shipped tomorrow - Renata will Email you shortly.
 
Hi John, What would be the best way to connect speakers and sub to the MDAC2 if I was to try out a sub later on?

I was thinking about it earlier and came up with a number of options - no idea which are workable, never mind which one is best!

I'd be using active speakers with balanced connectors, but not sure whether the connectors on the sub would be balanced or RCA - maybe the best connectivity option would steer me to a specific sub type.

1.Some form of split/y cable using the balanced outputs only

2.Sub connected to the RCA outputs

3.MDAC2 to sub, then onward from sub to loudspeakers
 
Hi John, What would be the best way to connect speakers and sub to the MDAC2 if I was to try out a sub later on?

I was thinking about it earlier and came up with a number of options - no idea which are workable, never mind which one is best!

I'd be using active speakers with balanced connectors, but not sure whether the connectors on the sub would be balanced or RCA - maybe the best connectivity option would steer me to a specific sub type.

1.Some form of split/y cable using the balanced outputs only

2.Sub connected to the RCA outputs

3.MDAC2 to sub, then onward from sub to loudspeakers

rtrt,

Depends if the Sub is Balanced or not, but any of the options will work - there are pros and cons to each... Best would be if both the sub and main amp are balanced (thus insuring the same loading on both phases of the balanced output stage).
 
ok thanks John.

Since sub is just an idea right now, i'd go for a balanced option to go along with the balanced actives.

With option 1 - Y Cable, would I potentially be overloading the MDAC2 outputs. Or perhaps thats impedance dependant?

With option 3, I was thinking potentially it could degrade the signal to the active speakers by passing through the sub first.

I suppose if I got a hold of a sub with balanced inputs and pass through capability, I could try both options.

Food for thought...

--------------------------

Would use of the DSP capability for low freq room correction impact on my decision here I wonder?
 
With option 1 - Y Cable, would I potentially be overloading the MDAC2 outputs. Or perhaps thats impedance dependant?

The MDAC2 will drive a 4 ohm speaker to 5W in ClassA, so its more then robust to drive any line level load.

With option 3, I was thinking potentially it could degrade the signal to the active speakers by passing through the sub first.

I suppose if I got a hold of a sub with balanced inputs and pass through capability, I could try both options.

Best go to the Main speakers first, then to the sub, the XLR cable can have a "tapped" [/QUOTE]....

Would use of the DSP capability for low freq room correction impact on my decision here I wonder?

The DSP room correction would measure then system "as a whole" and apply the relevant correction.
 
Ok so option 1 - Y cable is more than fine - thanks for clarifying.

With the main actives - there's no pass through, so main speakers first isnt an option unfortunately.

When the time comes I think I'll look for a balanced sub and not worry too much if it also has pass-through. If it happens to have it, then I can try the pass through option and just compare how it sounds to the Y cable.

Re DSP capability - seems pd obvious now you've said it!
 
The MDAC2 will drive a 4 ohm speaker to 5W in ClassA, so its more then robust to drive any line level load.
....

So, for late night listening I could do without my power amp? Will they be happy with the impedance dips of my Summits? :cool:
 
The MDAC2 will drive a 4 ohm speaker to 5W in ClassA, so its more then robust to drive any line level load.

....

So, for late night listening I could do without my power amp? Will they be happy with the impedance dips of my Summits? :cool:

Just had a spark of an idea - does this mean that it'd be possible to use the MDAC (1 or 2) in a small room with a pair of small high quality bookshelf sized speakers, so long as volume was kept to sensible levels?

If yes, what would be the signs that you were pushing the volume too high - wouldn't want to overdo it.

--------------

Iirc smaller speakers are often less efficient than their larger siblings - so maybe this isnt practical after all
 
Interesting questions though. I've been considering a getting a sub. My amp has a pass through so it should be fairly straight forward for my setup.

Similar too your situation, I'm using mdac in a fairly small room, speakers (monitor audio rx1) aren't the greatest but are more than enough and easy to push to loud. I'd like to get another set but not sure what yet.
 
My sub related q's are different to those around using the MDAC to drive small loudspeakers directly.

Sub setup will be the main MDAC2 based one, whether I go for a sub in the end still tbc.

The small loudspeaker was a 'lightbulb moment', as to what I might do with my original fusion'd MDAC - was thinking a smaller system for another room.

I'd be unlikely to need masses of volume, but would like to be comfortable i'd not damage the MDAC with directly driving speakers with 5 watts.

It seems to me that MDAC delivering 5 Watts of Class A directly into high quality smallish speakers could be an interesting match.
 
What you need is a pair of very high efficiency speakers like horns. 5w is more than enough to deafen you with some circa 100db sensitivity speakers.
 
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