john dolan
pfm Member
Thanks John
Went to Maplins and bought a couple of plugs and fitted them to the ends of my Chord Anthem cables wired as per your guid sounding fine thanks again.
MDAC First Listen (part 00011111)
- Thread starter PhilCTTE
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Thanks John
Went to Maplins and bought a couple of plugs and fitted them to the ends of my Chord Anthem cables wired as per your guid sounding fine thanks again.
iansr
pfm Member
TVCs are great, I have one myself that was made in the Far East. But have you ever asked yourself what the parts cost to retail price ratio is of your Music First unit? We'll probably never know the precise answer to that question, but I can guarantee one thing, it would upset you.
Two questions mixed in here
No
Depends if you like a music first. You'd have to listen and decide for yourself in your system.
No
Depends if you like a music first. You'd have to listen and decide for yourself in your system.
john dolan
pfm Member
A good analogue volume control is better than a digital volume control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYjH...top_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJYjHKv2_OqQ&nomobile=1
I run my M-dac full volume through a AS Passion passive which sounds better than M-dac direct.I have also used my Glasshouse TVC both better the digital volume control and a MF TVC going fully balanced would be about as good as it gets imo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYjH...top_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJYjHKv2_OqQ&nomobile=1
I run my M-dac full volume through a AS Passion passive which sounds better than M-dac direct.I have also used my Glasshouse TVC both better the digital volume control and a MF TVC going fully balanced would be about as good as it gets imo.
We all have different preferences and tastes - that's what's great about HiFi
There are very very few recordings that haven't been through at least one digital volume control.
john dolan
pfm Member
I have lots of gain in my system and don't play loud so using lots of attenuation when used direct to the amps the M-dac diminishes mass and colour sounds thin.
Running it through a good analogue control and m-dac full volume you hear the M-dac at its best.
Direct to the amps is best if you have little gain in the system or play very loud so use little attenuation.
With my Passion ive run the passive wide open and M-dac volume turned down low to play at my normal listening level then start to turn down the M-dac and turn up the passive and as I do you can hear the sound of the M-dac improve and keep improving all the way to full volume.
Im tempted by the new young dac that has a proper analogue volume control because im sure not impressed by the digital ones ive heard.
Running it through a good analogue control and m-dac full volume you hear the M-dac at its best.
Direct to the amps is best if you have little gain in the system or play very loud so use little attenuation.
With my Passion ive run the passive wide open and M-dac volume turned down low to play at my normal listening level then start to turn down the M-dac and turn up the passive and as I do you can hear the sound of the M-dac improve and keep improving all the way to full volume.
Im tempted by the new young dac that has a proper analogue volume control because im sure not impressed by the digital ones ive heard.
iansr
pfm Member
I've compared my MDAC direct to my power amps to running it at full volume but using my TVC to then attenuate the volume. There is no question in my mind as to which sounds better; the former. So between us we have proved that its all down to subjective impressions.
And BTW, my TVC has left some pretty expensive active preamps in its wake.
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Quoting martin when he said analog volume control is better should be taken with thought, he said that in order to beat their ess attenuator you have to design a potentiometer with a noise ratio better than the noise floor of the dac. Not easy to do and im not sure most pre amps achieve this, the "possible" benefits from preamps have been stated in previous posts and they relate to other things rather than the typical pot gains.
I don't think it is down to subjective impression but more a matter of other bottlenecks in the system if a preamp does not improve the sound quality.
We have to remember that we are talking about systems with lots of gain which makes it to loud to use the M-DAC at <30db.
Mikas
pfm Member
I believe it's not common nor easy to do with analogue audio, what we do with water. i.e. install a 'filter' and get a cleaner result in the end.
It is my conviction that it is hard to improve the sound quality by adding whatever to analogue circuits. Anything extra can only deteriorate the original signal.
And this doesn't mean I don't believe it is possible to correct an issue or another with some extra circuits, but the result, even if it 'sounds better' will never be cleaner.
Using a pre-amp between the MDAC and the amplifier is for me a no no.
I'm using the pre-amp on my Primare because it doesn't have direct inputs for the amp.
Michael
It is my conviction that it is hard to improve the sound quality by adding whatever to analogue circuits. Anything extra can only deteriorate the original signal.
And this doesn't mean I don't believe it is possible to correct an issue or another with some extra circuits, but the result, even if it 'sounds better' will never be cleaner.
Using a pre-amp between the MDAC and the amplifier is for me a no no.
I'm using the pre-amp on my Primare because it doesn't have direct inputs for the amp.
Michael
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
You are not wrong and i used to think the same as you and still do when it comes to circuit complexity, but the matter of signals is that in order to balance system components and control the signal there must and always be something in the chain to control the level of volume. Whether it be analog or digital.
No matter what is used one must be in the circuit, its just a matter of which.
Passive pre amps quite possibly have no added benefits compared to digital volume control (done right) but as previously stated active pre amps have quality's that "potentially" improve the sound.
john dolan
pfm Member
Im running my M-dac atm digital pre deactivated and into the direct in input on my Passion passive this bypasses the selector switch and the whole sound is only going through a single Zfoil resistor per channel.
This sound better than going direct with digital preamps using lots of attenuation.
With the amount of gain I have in my system when I run M-dac direct the display is in the 60 to 50 db range and at the loudest I play I don't think ive ever been in the 40s so I need massive attenuation.
I understand guys with other systems with less gain that can run high 20 db range direct would be the better option but even so im not keen on the idea of a volume control that works by degrading the sound.
This sound better than going direct with digital preamps using lots of attenuation.
With the amount of gain I have in my system when I run M-dac direct the display is in the 60 to 50 db range and at the loudest I play I don't think ive ever been in the 40s so I need massive attenuation.
I understand guys with other systems with less gain that can run high 20 db range direct would be the better option but even so im not keen on the idea of a volume control that works by degrading the sound.
JTC
PFM Villager...
All this talk of pre-amps/no-pre-amps is very interesting. Since my MDAC++ developed its fault, I had to step back to a stock MDAC. This is still very good, but I found a valve preamp between its outputs and the ATCs made for a more enjoyable listening experience. I can't say why, as such, but it did.
Now MDAC L2Toy++ is due (in the post) and I'll be removing the vanilla MDAC board, so it will be very interesting to see if the modded MDAC tips the balance in favour of direct connection once again....
More once it arrives, is installed and has a chance to warm up...
Now MDAC L2Toy++ is due (in the post) and I'll be removing the vanilla MDAC board, so it will be very interesting to see if the modded MDAC tips the balance in favour of direct connection once again....
More once it arrives, is installed and has a chance to warm up...
Bigbobby666
pfm Member
LIstening between 40db and 30db on the MDAC does not sound as good as listening at 0db though a passive pre. So until Digital volume control (done right) exist I will be using a passive preamp!
The whole point of a passive pre is to have attenuation without adding/removing something.
I am a bit curious at what db the people who is running the mdac direct is listening at.
Share youre experiences replacing my previous setup MDAC straight into amps with Tube preamp in between, even wife agrees.
More life in music as she expresses it whatever that means. Don't disagree with her, not entirely for family peace. May be looking forward for MDAC Tube version. Just for the sake of it, have always been in favor of SS. Just recently discovered what tubes can add to musical experience after having had Audio as a hobby since the 70's. Need to broaden my mind I guess.
@John, I'm all in for whatever improvements you propose to MDAC2, even though I would propose as I wrote earlier a name change to MDAC - God Machine ... ; - )
/Lars
JohnW
pfm member
John,
Forgot to say, when you unpack the PCB you will notice a couple of new Lakewest Toy special Serial number labels- I don't have your chassis so if you could stick the new label on say the underside of your unit (there's now no longer space on the rear panel due to the Analogue bypass RCA's to attach the label).
Renata says your units at your local PO - don't forget to allow your unit to warm up first - and its got V0.90 software installed on the mainboard MCU.
JohnW
pfm member
Yes - so will I
John (JTC) has a standard board + his new "Toy" special build - shame the new Toy board will need time to warm up first....
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