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Luxman/Accuphase/Yamaha - Quality?

Discussion in 'audio' started by Paulq2, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. Amber Audio

    Amber Audio This is the Day


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Old Shatterhand

    Old Shatterhand pfm Member

    Always the same, if people like you have no arguments left, they trying to offend the other side or getting personal.:rolleyes:
     
    booja30 likes this.
  3. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

    Rod Elliot has this to say:

    In simple terms, if the output devices are biased to conduct the full 360 degree input cycle at any given power output/load, then it is class A. This is the very definition of class A operation. It matters nowt if it reverts to class AB at higher levels.
     
    Amber Audio and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  4. Suffolk Tony

    Suffolk Tony Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.

    It really doesn't matter you know. I do wonder how, if it's deliberately deceitful, Accuphase get away advertising my E-650 as "Pure Class A operation (30 watts into 8 ohms)". I've no way of knowing if the amp strays into Class AB operation, but I suspect, given my speakers and the volume I use, that it never does. so for practical purposes, it's Class A.
     
    maccar likes this.
  5. booja30

    booja30 pfm Member

    Alrighty then. Any AB amp is pure class A if you keep the volume down!
     
    Old Shatterhand likes this.
  6. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

    I don't think so.
     
  7. booja30

    booja30 pfm Member

    Yes, per post #1284. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  8. Amber Audio

    Amber Audio This is the Day

    I'm not arguing with you, I see zero point in you harping on about Class A cos you know best and wanna be a keyboard warrior.

    If it sounds good I buy it, if it sounds crap I send it back or sell it - Meerkat
     
    maccar likes this.
  9. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    Yes, I just don’t see the fuss around whether it is class a or not. Personally think ‘class a’ is wasteful & unnecessary, ducks for cover etc.
     
    booja30 and S-Man like this.
  10. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    There are many variants of class A from single ended (least efficient) to class G or sliding bias etc (more efficient).
    Weight is not that well correlated with class A power, especially if the amp is fan cooled.


    Of course weight and cost correlates well to sound quality:D:D
     
    booja30 likes this.
  11. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    I heard the Accuphase 100W Class A monoblocs (A-250s) in action a couple of weeks ago. They have the entertaining feature of an instantaneous digital readout of the power output, refreshed every second or so (it gets a bit hypnotizing). We played the entire Bernstein Mass VERY loud into a pair of (91dB) Fyne Audio F1-8s. For the most part the display showed an output <<5 Watts, rising to barely more than 30 Watts in the most dynamic peaks. I think the highest I saw was still <40 Watts.

    What this suggests to me is that if you have a Class A amp which will deliver a solid 30 Watts in Class A, but reverts to Class AB for headroom above this, there are probably very few occasions when such an amp will depart from Class A into Class AB, unless you have inefficient loudspeakers or are trying to fill a large room to ear-bleeding levels.
     
    maccar and Suffolk Tony like this.
  12. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    I think it needs a "pure" indicator and a "soiled" indicator that flashes on the class B peaks. Then you will know when it sounds awful.:D
     
  13. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    Mmm, would they really be capable of delivering 100w class A? I very much doubt it. It is a fair point about Accuphase having a potential labelling issue.
     
    booja30 and herb like this.
  14. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    I may be mistaken, but I believe the 'A' in Class A stands for 'Audiophile' while the 'B' in Class B stands for 'Broken'. Class A/B is, of course, Almost Broken.

    The D in Class D quite clearly stands for "Don't"
     
    TimF, Tony L, k90tour and 1 other person like this.
  15. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Published specs clearly indicate pure class A operation of 100W into 8R, with actual peak output up to 190W into 8R which I take to be the Class AB mode headroom; 200W into 4R, 400W into 2R and 800W (music peaks) into 1R. If you think they're being a bit disingenuous, why not take it up with them and report back on what they say?
     
    Old Shatterhand likes this.
  16. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

    What is there to doubt? Not big or heavy enough? Each mono-block consumes 300W idling. That level of inefficiency seems reasonable for close to 100W class A. Its maximum output (into 8R) is closer to 200W, but presumably not in class A.
     
  17. booja30

    booja30 pfm Member

    If it is running 'pure' class A to 100 watts it would be putting out huge amounts of waste heat and consuming ridiculous amounts of electricity. Class A is a bit like having your car floored all the time and using the clutch to regulate speed. It's a wasteful design even at lower wattages, so I really hope 100 watt class A isn't the case.
     
  18. herb

    herb music live

    ATC quote that their amps are class AB, but quietly say that they are class A up to about 25w. My integrated certainly runs hot, perhaps the amps in your ATC speakers are the same?
     
  19. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    So we seem to have 2 expert views that the Accuphase either doesn’t output 100W in Class A, or if it does, it shouldn’t. You can’t really win an argument like that, so I’m not even going to try.
     
  20. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    Where's our resident expert on Bollox?
    He would tell us the definitely definitive answer.
     
    booja30 likes this.

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