Looking for an end game preamp. for ATC Active

[karlsushi]

A lot of the explanations above have reiterated in my mind that a high quality unity gain buffer (cathode follower) placed between your DAC and amp is going to serve almost exactly the same purpose as an active preamp. The caveats of course being that you don't need any gain and you accept there may be some 'theoretical' degradation in sound quality using attenuation in the digital domain (which I'll add is not something I've experienced audibly with my DAVE).

I know the OP isn't, but if you're on a budget and you want to get a sense of what an active pre might bring to the party, I still maintain that you can't go far wrong with something like a Musical Fidelity X10-D (easily modded for not a lot of expense). In fact, you will probably find it outperforms the vast majority of active preamps up to a certain budget (subject to the above caveat re gain).

Or, you can spend a shed load on one if you like: https://www.whestaudio.co.uk/products/mastering-buffer-model-bii

 

[beammeup]

Put this one on your list as an endgame option ... great sounding - brilliant remote control using Apple's own remote.

I would get one - even over and above the Music First - if I was in the market for one:

icOn passive preamplifier

Smart icOn passive preamp with remote

High-end passive magnetic preamps with Dave Slagle's autoformers, Apple Remote control, and a diverse selection to meet your specific needs.

www.passivepreamp.com

 

[GT]

Put this one on your list as an endgame option ... great sounding - brilliant remote control using Apple's own remote.

I would get one - even over and above the Music First - if I was in the market for one:

icOn passive preamplifier

Smart icOn passive preamp with remote

High-end passive magnetic preamps with Dave Slagle's autoformers, Apple Remote control, and a diverse selection to meet your specific needs.

www.passivepreamp.com

Better doing it with a mechanical switch instead of FETs. You really don't want any semiconductors in the signal path and being a transformer you still have the impedance matching problem and also the loss of dynamic range, just like you get with any passive device...

 

[shug4476]

Except that I compared the Dave direct to a MFA Baby Ref V2 which is perhaps one of the most transparent preamps it is possible to get. The Dave volume control’s sound quality was at least the equal of the Baby Ref V2.

The Dave is possibly the best consumer DAC available and, to the extent it is possible to control volume well from within a DAC, I suspect it is very well placed to do this.

I have not tried the MFA but have heard nothing but positive things about it. I have owned the Allegri+ and, whilst it was very capable, it only served to illuminate the weaknesses in the rest of my system, so I moved it on.

 

[seadog7]

I’m having a loan of an Octave HP300SE over the weekend. I do love its sound so much more over the Chord Pre. 3. It’s just as detailed, perhaps a touch more so, just as much bass punch etc.

And it’s a brand new unit, not even run in yet.

I’m going to go even higher up the Octave range to the HP 700SE - with the tone control module. It’s an extra cost, but has a balance control as well as bass/treble controls.

Well……. either that or I’ve just discovered a dealer near me who stocks T+A Audio gear.

The T+A P 3100 HV pre. amp is only a bit more than the Ovtave HP300SE.

But it has a very good tone / eq. module fitted that’s apparently very, very good at taking some room issues out of the equation.

Anyone here have experience with T+A stuff ?

 

[Whizzy]

At Musicraft currently

ATC SCA2 Pre Amplifier including SPH2 Phono Stage (demo/display unit) £8100 - Now £4000

 

[seadog7]

At Musicraft currently

ATC SCA2 Pre Amplifier including SPH2 Phono Stage (demo/display unit) £8100 - Now £4000

Thanks, but I’m not in the UK.

As impressive as that price is.

 

[sq225917]

All a preamp can add is impedance matching, gain if needed, attenuation if not. If the OP needs to run his dave far below max output, say more than 30db of attenuation, then a preamp could, in theory, sound better if of high enough quality. Because noise increases with reduced output level from most dacs, dacs with analogue pre stages excluded.

If the dave's output stage has low enough output impedance and he doesn't need to run it far below full output then a pre offers nothing other than added noise a potentially tilted fr and added distortion, depending on its specs. One might prefer a bit of tilt and noise, plenty of happy tvc owners.

 

[AndyU]

All a preamp can add is impedance matching, gain if needed, attenuation if not. If the OP needs to run his dave far below max output, say more than 30db of attenuation, then a preamp could, in theory, sound better if of high enough quality. Because noise increases with reduced output level from most dacs, dacs with analogue pre stages excluded.

If the dave's output stage has low enough output impedance and he doesn't need to run it far below full output then a pre offers nothing other than added noise a potentially tilted fr and added distortion, depending on its specs. One might prefer a bit of tilt and noise, plenty of happy tvc owners.

According to Stereophile’s review of the DAVE:

“The output impedance from the unbalanced and headphone jacks was extraordinarily low, at <0.5 ohm. The balanced output impedance was a still-low 66 ohms at all audio frequencies.”

https://www.stereophile.com/content/chord-electronics-dave-da-processor-measurements

 

[Curtis]

Personally I would look at attenuating between the Dave & Speakers so you can use the Dac near its top end of attenuation.
This may help its character.
Or possibly you may get more enjoyable results with a different Dac?

 

[gazjam]

Strong shout out for the PS Audio BHK Signature.

owned one last few years, and it enhanced my system a LOT.

 

[sq225917]

Then nothing of use unless you run it way attenuated...

 

[JamesJamerson]

Then nothing of use unless you run it way attenuated...

Mr sq, I understand none of this stuff & wondered if you could have a look at the published specs. & tell me whether using my Chord tt2 as a pre-amp. into my ATC 50 actives is optimal re. impedance matching etc.. I've been doing this for years & it sounds fine but having just had the speakers serviced etc. and greatly enjoying the upgrade, I wondered about the pre-amp. bit. Thanks.

 

[Fourlegs]

Personally I would look at attenuating between the Dave & Speakers so you can use the Dac near its top end of attenuation.
This may help its character.
Or possibly you may get more enjoyable results with a different Dac?

Is this advice based on your use and experience of a Dave feeding direct to active speakers?

I often run my Dave at about -38dB and I have compared the sound to running the Dave at -3dB with 35dB of attenuation. The overall sound was perhaps slightly less transparent in the latter configuration (ie Dave at -3dB with 35dB attenuation added) but there was not much in it. Hence my recommendation to just use the Dave direct or possibly to add an active preamp to flavour or colour the sound if that sounds better to the listener (it doesn’t to me).

 

[salman]

Personally I would look at attenuating between the Dave & Speakers so you can use the Dac near its top end of attenuation.
This may help its character.
Or possibly you may get more enjoyable results with a different Dac?

I had ATC change the input sensitivity at the factory to 4v when the amp packs were being serviced. Maybe not practical if the OP is not in the UK. I now live near Geneva but had them modified when I was in the UK.

To the OP:
If you want to try tone controls then at least try going whole hog with the Trinnov Amethyst as it’s in your price range. EQ will help but full room EQ that allows (via the 3D mic) for direct versus reflected sound is a game changer

Salman

 

[Curtis]

I had ATC change the input sensitivity at the factory to 4v when the amp packs were being serviced. Maybe not practical if the OP is not in the UK. I now live near Geneva but had them modified when I was in the UK.

To the OP:
If you want to try tone controls then at least try going whole hog with the Trinnov Amethyst as it’s in your price range. EQ will help but full room EQ that allows (via the 3D mic) for direct versus reflected sound is a game changer

Salman

Yes I read in the manual that you can adjust the input sensitivity on the speakers.
They seem to be default at 1V yet the chord is sending 4v from the balanced outputs.

 

[Resonator]

I wish my system sounded better without preamp, however reality is different. Removed my Audio Research Ref6 preamp from the system for a week and listened to dac direct to power amp. Thought it was ok, but when plugged Ref6 back couldn't believe how much better system sounded!

 

[salman]

Yes I read in the manual that you can adjust the input sensitivity on the speakers.
They seem to be default at 1V yet the chord is sending 4v from the balanced outputs.

I think (I might be wrong) you can only adjust (from 1v to 2v) by yourself if you have the pro versions with trim pots. Mine were adjusted as part of a factory amp pack recap

Salman

 

[seadog7]

I think (I might be wrong) you can only adjust (from 1v to 2v) by yourself if you have the pro versions with trim pots. Mine were adjusted as part of a factory amp pack recap

And I’m very sure that they have to be calibrated / pair matched again as the value has changed.


I don’t really want to do that.

 

[salman]

In my case there was no recalibration (and I don’t see why one would require this). I just sent ATC the amp pacs - not the whole speaker set.

But this is pointless unless you want to drive the ATCs like I do - from a DAC using digital attenuation (in my case a Hugo TT2)

I am typically playing at -10 db so not much digital attenuation is applied. Without the mod it would be I think -22 db.

A downside is that if you move to to a low output dac you can run out of headroom. This happened with my PSAudio Directstream DAC Mk1 which had a 3v balanced output

Salman