Leica T

[Jonboi]

jonboi,

One of those old-fashioned optical viewfinders is rather impressive if you value accurate colours, high resolution, and light-speed (literally) refresh rates.

Joe

True; Meh, I keep telling myself that one day I'll get a digital camera.

Trouble is, there are just so many compromises either as a photographic tool at one end, and ones empty (very) wallet at the other.

I prefer rangefinders over SLR's, unless there is a definite need for teles or wides.

My ideal camera would be an M240, but B&O kit aint' cheap either, so the cupboard is a mite bare for large purchases of that ilk for the time being.

I do find the T very interesting though, and will definitely be going out of my way to have a fondle, stroke, and general grope of one once they hit the stores.

And then we shall see whether my photographic ideals and my wallet will have a match...

Best

John...

 

[Tony L]

But if we're talking about the design of an expensive camera I think it's fair to say that one should have a few features as givens, which for me would include being able to see, compose and snap the shutter at the right time in the light of day. The Leica T is damn expensive for a camera that's probably no better than an iPhone is that respect. Or maybe it's just me. I can't compose on a screen or through an EVF to save my life, and taking pictures at arm's length just feels so unnatural.

There's a distinct psychological difference between viewfinder and screen IMO. The former you are looking straight at the subject in three dimensions and it enables a typical human 'hunt' response, be that good or bad. A screen, be it an LCD on the back of a digicam or waist-level on a MF camera represents a layer of abstraction and really one is viewing the final 2d picture. Personally I compose / take far better pictures using the latter method than the former, but part of that may be that being a glasses-wearer I can never see the full frame through a viewfinder. My photography certainly moved up a few notches once I could view something more akin to the final picture (and obviously review / discard that which does not work).

LCDs in daylight are pretty hopeless. I was up in Cumbria last week and had the XPro1 with me and on a sunny day started using the OVF as I couldn't see the rear screen at all. It was fine aside from the fact the lens blocks out the bottom right of the frame. I took one picture only to find a bloody coke can in the picture at that point - I'd have kicked it aside had I noticed!

 

[Joe P]

Jonboi,

Trouble is, there are just so many compromises either as a photographic tool at one end, and ones empty (very) wallet at the other.

That sounds like audiophile talk. Just buy something and start clicking.

Would these pictures have been better if shot on a $10k MF digital camera?

Joe

 

[Robert]

Jonboi,


That sounds like audiophile talk. Just buy something and start clicking.

Would these pictures have been better if shot on a $10k MF digital camera?

Joe

Dead right Joe, find something decent and master it.
Far better than swapping quickly between different models and never quite getting the feel of *them. I think getting the feel of a camera - from camera phone to high end DSLR is critical to reliably getting good shots. Knowing your camera inside out means you can grab that wonder shot that might otherwise be missed faffing with something even slightly unfamiliar.

The X20 I bought last year isn't top grade but will be replaced either when it breaks beyond economic repair or it can no longer interface with other hardware and software. So many many years hopefully.



* Collectors and camera tech fetishists accepted

LCDs in daylight are pretty hopeless. I was up in Cumbria last week and had the XPro1 with me and on a sunny day started using the OVF as I couldn't see the rear screen at all. It was fine aside from the fact the lens blocks out the bottom right of the frame. I took one picture only to find a bloody coke can in the picture at that point - I'd have kicked it aside had I noticed!

That's what photoshop's for, innit

 

[Jonboi]

Jonboi,


That sounds like audiophile talk. Just buy something and start clicking.

Would these pictures have been better if shot on a $10k MF digital camera?

Joe

True, true...

A recent trip to NZ saw me use my iPhone for happy snap photo moments, and apart from the silly hold it out in front of you methodology for taking piccies (which I really dislike!) the results were such as to render the use of an atypical consumer digicam unnecessary IMHO.

But given that I won't be replacing my 35mm Olympus rangefinder (film) with another film camera, and that my next serious camera will be digital, I'd like a 'nice' one.

That audiophile thing again... *cough*...as you rightly point out...


Best

John..

 

[Joe P]

Jonboi,

Just sayin' that holding out for the perfect camera before you take a picture is like not listening to Beethoven's 9th until you have the perfect system.

Kit, schmit, who gives a shit? It's the result or the music that counts.

Joe

 

[cliffpatte]

Jonboi,

Just sayin' that holding out for the perfect camera before you take a picture is like not listening to Beethoven's 9th until you have the perfect system.

Kit, schmit, who gives a shit? It's the result or the music that counts.

Joe

I'm an addict to change

starting down the digital path in 2001 with the Fuji S1 Pro - which was marvellous for the day - but not at all the same as a Minolta 9xi that I had been using.

I'm always looking for something different where I look at a feature and say to myself - I wonder what that would do on one of my standard shots?

The easiest camera in the world to use is a hassellad V series with WLF - what you see in the viewfinder is what you get.

The hardest thing to get right is a rangefinder in the close focus range

Cameras like the Leica M Type 240 or OMD EM1 give you a live view that is equivalent, give or take, to what you see on the WLF of the Hasselblad.

If I could afford one, I'd like to have the biggest sensor you could get on a Hasselblad H5D, as the viewfinder, DOF control and Lens Optics are stunning

A T would be fun to play with for a while.

 

[Jonboi]

Jonboi,

Just sayin' that holding out for the perfect camera before you take a picture is like not listening to Beethoven's 9th until you have the perfect system.

Kit, schmit, who gives a shit? It's the result or the music that counts.

Joe

Ah, yes, quite true.

But then, one has the agonising decision; which is the 'true' interpretation of Beethoven's 9th?

The 1961 recording done with Berlin Phil and Karjan; the Vienna Phil and Bohm; or the later recording done with Carlos Kleiber?

I'm not so sure which is more neurotic and obsessive, the audiophile collector, or the recording/classical music collector...lol...

By comparison, the world of cameras appears relatively 'easy'...

To be sure though, I'm not interested in a camera equivalent of an audiophile rig - i.e. endless tweaking and self doubt about the veracity of the system, and the system getting in the way of the music (or the camera ergonomics and required technical juxtaposition of same, getting in the way of the picture taking experience and creative jive)

Rather, I'd much prefer something simple, pure, elegant, rewarding and involving to use, and that just works.

Kinda like the philosophical equivalent of Apple, and B&O products then, where the technology is there to serve the needs of the end user, and not the other way around.

There are some interesting and informative reviews of the Leica T coming out - happy to link to them if anyones interested.

One thing I haven't discovered is quite how one manually focuses on the Leica T - albeit it appears possible from review comment - but never having owned an auto focusing camera (apart from the iPhone), with that sort of feature (provided it's reliable and accurate) would one ever need to manually focus again?

My inexperience with modern cameras is clearly showing on this one...lol...

Best

John...

 

[tomek]

Jonboi,


That sounds like audiophile talk. Just buy something and start clicking.

Would these pictures have been better if shot on a $10k MF digital camera?

Joe

He is using Kiev 88 and Kiev 6c with medium format film, theoretically has much bigger resolution than any modern ff digital camera. Kiev 88 is a copy of Hasselblad and lenses for it where copies of Zeiss lenses, so it is not sooo bad.

 

[Stunsworth]

The easiest camera in the world to use is a hassellad V series with WLF - what you see in the viewfinder is what you get

Apart from the fact that the image is flipped horizontally. I never got used to seeing something moving in the viewfinder from left to right and having to track it by moving the camera from right to left.

This was with a Kiev 88, not a Hassie, and my Kievs - I had either 2 or 3 - were a pile of junk. All failed at some point.

 

[Paulicus]

Knocked down price Leica M for the American audience

 

[dan m]

You've just described a Leica M Type 240

Cliff,

Well yes, but one of the reasons the Ms cost so damn much is the optical viewfinder. Just as the Fuji X-E1 was an EVF-only version of the X-Pro1 at reduced cost, I was hoping for the same from Leica. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Dan

 

[dan m]

Dan, the Sony A7 series have an articulated rear screen the Leica T doesn't - the A series are full frame, too...

But if the handling is anything like my little V1 with adapter, it's just not practical for everyday. I've heard the same for the Fujis - you are simply better off getting the lenses that go with the body and use it the way it was intended. I was hoping the leica t was designed from the ground up as an EVF-only M8.

Dan

 

[cliffpatte]

But if the handling is anything like my little V1 with adapter, it's just not practical for everyday. I've heard the same for the Fujis - you are simply better off getting the lenses that go with the body and use it the way it was intended. I was hoping the leica t was designed from the ground up as an EVF-only M8.

Dan

I certainly don't think its an M8 sans OVF and with Live View. At the end of the day the M8 used the mechanical contacts from the lens to determine the focussing distance. The new device would use contrast detection and pixel peeping a la Sony RX1, but with the option to change lenses.

 

[dan m]

Cliff, I'm sure you are right. I've sort of given up on the idea of using my M-mount lenses on anything but film bodies. I like what I get from the V1 when I need instant gratification.

 

[Jonboi]

Cliff, I'm sure you are right. I've sort of given up on the idea of using my M-mount lenses on anything but film bodies. I like what I get from the V1 when I need instant gratification.

I have to say the photos taken with the Leica T, with the M mount adaptor and M lenses, on Steve Huffs site, are sensational, and from review comments, there are no issues in using M lenses on this new Lecia.

Being a little out of touch re ownership of digital EVIL cams, I downloaded a manual for the 'T' and one can most certainly use manual focus (via the ring on the lens), as well as auto focus with a variety of focusing points - either a 'grid' of 11 points in 'averaging' mode, or the ability to move a focus point to where ever you want it by finger tip on the screen when in 'selective' focusing mode.

Personally, I'm liking this camera more and more as I get to read and discover more about it.

Best

John...

 

[Ian Hughes]

I've now read a few reports and seen some well shot pictures. All of which makes me wonder if this is the camera that Leica believe is now their entry level. Would this mean the end of the other Japanese joint venture sub-formats (C, D, V)? Although Leica is a big name, it is not a big company (wrt Canikon), and I'm not sure if they're spreading themselves too thinly trying to be all things to all men.

That aside, I'm not a fan of the rear screen viewfinder (however impressive) and not being able to brace the camera to your face, but I suspect that is an age thing. If you've grown up using a viewfinder-less camera, then it will be less of an issue.

 

[Jonboi]

I've now read a few reports and seen some well shot pictures. All of which makes me wonder if this is the camera that Leica believe is now their entry level. Would this mean the end of the other Japanese joint venture sub-formats (C, D, V)? Although Leica is a big name, it is not a big company (wrt Canikon), and I'm not sure if they're spreading themselves too thinly trying to be all things to all men.

That aside, I'm not a fan of the rear screen viewfinder (however impressive) and not being able to brace the camera to your face, but I suspect that is an age thing. If you've grown up using a viewfinder-less camera, then it will be less of an issue.

You can brace the camera to your face, but it requires purchase of the optional Visoflex EVF.

Personally, I wouldn't use one without it, as I find trying to take pictures without shake on my iPhone held out in front of me (let alone a proper camera) difficult, as holding a camera in such a manner is an ergonomic disaster IMHO, born out of basic digicams with their rear LCD screens used by happy snapper, clueless consumers of such devices.

IMHO of course!

Best

John..

 

[cliffpatte]

I have to say the photos taken with the Leica T, with the M mount adaptor and M lenses, on Steve Huffs site, are sensational, and from review comments, there are no issues in using M lenses on this new Lecia.

Being a little out of touch re ownership of digital EVIL cams, I downloaded a manual for the 'T' and one can most certainly use manual focus (via the ring on the lens), as well as auto focus with a variety of focusing points - either a 'grid' of 11 points in 'averaging' mode, or the ability to move a focus point to where ever you want it by finger tip on the screen when in 'selective' focusing mode.

Personally, I'm liking this camera more and more as I get to read and discover more about it.

Certainly I have found that using the EVF and pixel peeping on the Leica M Type 240 does get you that millimetre fine accuracy on the faster Leica lenses, that would cause you to have to stop down to F2 from F1.4 to achieve using the rangefinder.

You can brace the camera to your face, but it requires purchase of the optional Visoflex EVF.

Personally, I wouldn't use one without it, as I find trying to take pictures without shake on my iPhone held out in front of me (let alone a proper camera) difficult, as holding a camera in such a manner is an ergonomic disaster IMHO, born out of basic digicams with their rear LCD screens used by happy snapper, clueless consumers of such devices.

IMHO of course!

The optional hotshoe mounted EVF on the M isn't quite as good as the EVF built into the OMD EM1, so I'm hoping the new Visoflex EVF for the T is a bit better. But the EVF on the M is still usable, and again it helps get millimetre accurate focussing - for example on the eyes instead of the eye socket. This is especially important using the Noctilux wide open in daylight.

 

[Ian Hughes]

I have to use the screen on my D-Lux 5, and also have the optional EVF for when conditions dictate. However, it is an obvious add-on, and that current performance and technology has improved by leaps and bounds from the time I bought it.

My current preference is still for my M9-P and its three lenses. I suspect my "perfect" camera is still some way off in development, but it won't be too long before it hits the streets.