Leica T
- Thread starter kjb
- Start date
kjb
Proof reading not always a strength
The photo room has tended to a troll free zone, unlike the hi fi room. Thank your bringing that level of discussion and debate to set that right.
Leica, like top end Canon, Olympus, Nikon, fuji will never be "pieces of crap" - they are all high quality pieces of kit with quirks, characteristics and strengths that will suit different customers. And any camera from an iPhone up is only as good as the eye that frames the shot.
I think Leica have taken an interesting approach to addressing the rapid decline of the high end camera market, as Fuji did with the x series. Leica have gone anti retro and obviously looked closely at how Apple have made well designed, aesthetically pleasing and user oriented consumer products.
I like the way they've mixed the high end technology with artisanal craft. I'd need to use it to see how good it is - that will depend on whether it makes me take better pictures or makes me want to take more pictures. The initial pics and reviews suggest this might well help a decent photographer create better images and be a beautiful object to use.
gary yeowell
pfm Member
topoxforddoc
pfm Member
Any different to my IPhone or iPad? As I said, it's not for me. But most people now would not know that they had to put their eye to a viewfinder on a traditional camera.
topoxforddoc
pfm Member
Joe,
Yes, you're right. But that doesn't seem to bother masses of people I see taking pictures with their digital compacts and phones. If you want a VF, then you can have the rather expensive Visoflex EVF. As I said, not my cup of tea, but that's what the majority of consumers want, apparently.
Charlie
Yes, you're right. But that doesn't seem to bother masses of people I see taking pictures with their digital compacts and phones. If you want a VF, then you can have the rather expensive Visoflex EVF. As I said, not my cup of tea, but that's what the majority of consumers want, apparently.
Charlie
topoxforddoc
pfm Member
Gary,
I agree that most modern cameras are overpriced shiny toys - not just the T. As you know, it's not the camera, but the eye, which creates a good picture. I still like my old cameras best - my M2 is my all time favourite and my DMR my favourite digital camera. The DMR is positively ark-like for a digital camera, but it's not the technology which limits one's creative outlets.
Charlie
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Charlie,
It's an odd entry, as Leica's rangefinders are the antithesis of a camera design that's all but useless for framing, composing and nailing the decisive moment in daylight.
If it were a few hundred clams, sure. But at $1,850 or £1,350 I think the lack of a proper viewfinder will be the Leica T's Achilles' heel. Maybe it's aimed at the wealthies who take lots of selfies.
FWIW, this isn't the first time I think Leica goofed on something fundamental. Behold...
Joe
It's an odd entry, as Leica's rangefinders are the antithesis of a camera design that's all but useless for framing, composing and nailing the decisive moment in daylight.
If it were a few hundred clams, sure. But at $1,850 or £1,350 I think the lack of a proper viewfinder will be the Leica T's Achilles' heel. Maybe it's aimed at the wealthies who take lots of selfies.
FWIW, this isn't the first time I think Leica goofed on something fundamental. Behold...
Joe
topoxforddoc
pfm Member
Joe,
Im not sure what you mean by Leicas rangefinders not being able to nail the decisive moment. The great thing about RF cameras is the ability to shoot with your right eye and watch the world with your left eye. RF cameras also have a bright VF with framelines, which also allow you to see outside the framed image. A 35mm RF camera is one of the classic street photography tools. Surely people like HC-B, McCullin, Winogrand etc cant have been wrong.
Using a live view screen on the back of a camera is much more difficult. At least I find it impossible. Thats why Im not sure the T is for me (at least not without an expensive EVF Visoflex).
Charlie
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Charlie,
Maybe I didn't phrase my previous comment as clearly as I had intended.
Joe
That is my point -- the M-series rangefinders excel at that -- which is why I find the T to be such an odd design. Surely, of any camera manufacturer Leica would understand the importance of framing, composition and nailing the decisive moment.
Maybe I didn't phrase my previous comment as clearly as I had intended.
Joe
topoxforddoc
pfm Member
Joe,
I know what you're getting at, as neither of would be happy without a VF. BUT many of the paying public don't know or don't care. They just want something that looks nice, is easy to use and takes nice pictures. The T allows Leica to sell this to the masses, but the extra bits, eg the EVF, M adapter etc, mean that the more traditional photographer might consider it, in addition to their M kit. No point in making a smart new gadget, if no-one buys it.
Charlie
I know what you're getting at, as neither of would be happy without a VF. BUT many of the paying public don't know or don't care. They just want something that looks nice, is easy to use and takes nice pictures. The T allows Leica to sell this to the masses, but the extra bits, eg the EVF, M adapter etc, mean that the more traditional photographer might consider it, in addition to their M kit. No point in making a smart new gadget, if no-one buys it.
Charlie
Jonboi
Because Music Matters
A couple of decades ago when I actually worked as a professional portrait photographer behind a Mamiya RB67, in the 35mm field where the Nikon F series dominated as a press/reportage camera, the M & R series Leicas had a serious reputation for superb lens, coupled with amazing build quality of both lenses and body, that in turn was backed up by what one could see in terms of output using slides, by relatively easy side by side comparison.
I'm not a professional photographer anymore, merely a semi-serious amateur, and I still shoot with a now very elderly Olympus 35mm film rangefinder camera. And for digital, my iPhone 5s *cough*...
I've long hankered after a digital SLR, but the lack of FF sensors (until fairly recently) and weight and bulk put me off the concept.
But then the game changing Sony A7r arrived - FF sensor in a very compact body, and some very choice Zeiss lenses available.
And Leica have come out with the X2 and X Vario - a 'slow' and fixed, but very high quality zoom lens on the Vario, where again, on the basis of what I've seen re files, I personally prefer the 'look' of the Leica lens on the Vario, over the Zeiss's of the Sony, despite the lack of flexibility that the X Vario suffers re it's fixed zoom lenses in comparison with the I/C lens A7r Sony, and despite being 'only' an APS-C sensor.
But there are occasions when I might like a long telephoto, or a wide angle, and that lack of versatility is what holds me back from pursuing the XV Leica.
Along comes the new T - with the 'new' zoom for it, one more or less has an X Vario - but with the ability to change to a telephoto or wide angle if needed.
For build quality, I think it will be out on it's own, barring perhaps the M 240, or something like a Hassleblad, or an S2 etc.
From the files I've seen, the quality is there, as is the Leica 'look', and even some quite reasonable 'bokeh' despite being only an APS-C sensor, - which is where the X Vario with a slow aperture + APS-C sensor does not do so well IMV.
No, short of the expense of an M, I think this is likely to be a superb camera to be honest.
And IMHO, there is an awful lot to be said for quality, elegance, and simplicity of operation (less is more) or concentrating on the essentials as Leica put it.
I certainly found handling the Sony A7r not so much as daunting, or confusing, but just needlessly complex, in that unless using it everyday, one is going to be referring very frequently to the instruction manual to make best use of it.
And most modern, DSLR's are similar, in that they are very much the amalgam of computer and camera, which from an intuitive, creative tool POV, mitigates against them IMHO.
Naturally, I would want the EVF, as holding a camera out in front of one at arms length looks terminally silly IMHO, and likely to lead to camera shake; much better to triangulate with elbows against chest, and hands locked around the camera braced against forehead which the EVF (with diopter adjustment) will naturally allow.
Or for some situations, perhaps use a tripod.
With an iPhone, - offering iPhone screen display of what you see on the camera, as well as being a remote control for the Leica T - very, very neat idea indeed, for which I can see quite a lot of use.
As is the WiFi file transfer to computer, or social media, and GPS info etc.
Clearly, on design, build and features, this is very much a Leica for the 21st century, whilst simultaneously embracing all that history has proven a Leica to be as a creative and superb quality photographic tool, over the many decades they have been making optical instruments and cameras of the highest quality in Wetzlar.
Best
John..
I'm not a professional photographer anymore, merely a semi-serious amateur, and I still shoot with a now very elderly Olympus 35mm film rangefinder camera. And for digital, my iPhone 5s *cough*...
I've long hankered after a digital SLR, but the lack of FF sensors (until fairly recently) and weight and bulk put me off the concept.
But then the game changing Sony A7r arrived - FF sensor in a very compact body, and some very choice Zeiss lenses available.
And Leica have come out with the X2 and X Vario - a 'slow' and fixed, but very high quality zoom lens on the Vario, where again, on the basis of what I've seen re files, I personally prefer the 'look' of the Leica lens on the Vario, over the Zeiss's of the Sony, despite the lack of flexibility that the X Vario suffers re it's fixed zoom lenses in comparison with the I/C lens A7r Sony, and despite being 'only' an APS-C sensor.
But there are occasions when I might like a long telephoto, or a wide angle, and that lack of versatility is what holds me back from pursuing the XV Leica.
Along comes the new T - with the 'new' zoom for it, one more or less has an X Vario - but with the ability to change to a telephoto or wide angle if needed.
For build quality, I think it will be out on it's own, barring perhaps the M 240, or something like a Hassleblad, or an S2 etc.
From the files I've seen, the quality is there, as is the Leica 'look', and even some quite reasonable 'bokeh' despite being only an APS-C sensor, - which is where the X Vario with a slow aperture + APS-C sensor does not do so well IMV.
No, short of the expense of an M, I think this is likely to be a superb camera to be honest.
And IMHO, there is an awful lot to be said for quality, elegance, and simplicity of operation (less is more) or concentrating on the essentials as Leica put it.
I certainly found handling the Sony A7r not so much as daunting, or confusing, but just needlessly complex, in that unless using it everyday, one is going to be referring very frequently to the instruction manual to make best use of it.
And most modern, DSLR's are similar, in that they are very much the amalgam of computer and camera, which from an intuitive, creative tool POV, mitigates against them IMHO.
Naturally, I would want the EVF, as holding a camera out in front of one at arms length looks terminally silly IMHO, and likely to lead to camera shake; much better to triangulate with elbows against chest, and hands locked around the camera braced against forehead which the EVF (with diopter adjustment) will naturally allow.
Or for some situations, perhaps use a tripod.
With an iPhone, - offering iPhone screen display of what you see on the camera, as well as being a remote control for the Leica T - very, very neat idea indeed, for which I can see quite a lot of use.
As is the WiFi file transfer to computer, or social media, and GPS info etc.
Clearly, on design, build and features, this is very much a Leica for the 21st century, whilst simultaneously embracing all that history has proven a Leica to be as a creative and superb quality photographic tool, over the many decades they have been making optical instruments and cameras of the highest quality in Wetzlar.
Best
John..
gary yeowell
pfm Member
Charlie, the DMR is still one of the best digital devices around. Like the M8 it actually has a certain something, and in the right hands a very capable tool.
cliffpatte
Speed camera anarchist
not sure I agree with that. I really tried hard to love the X100, but it was dog slow to operate and very picky about memory cards, and the lens is very soft wide open. I'd rather use the Ricoh or Nikon with fixed lenses instead of the Fuji for IQ reasons. The X100S is a lot faster but still suffers from the soft lens wide open
I think the latest M with live view through the rear screen, and optional EVF and a full built in rangefinder is Leica's best camera to date. The new T is a valid new Leica with different compromises - do you need a rangefinder when you have live view and pixel peeping? The EVF will offer the same advantage as the EVF does on the M (where the rear screen isn't so usable eg in bright light), plus the new camera has all sorts of new fangled goodies too.
chipbutty
Mirrorless Manoeuvres
Did you try the X100 with new v2 firmware? It's transformed. I find the AF as fast as my m43 cameras. I'm sure it's not measurably faster but to me I can't tell the difference. I absolutely adore the X100.
cliffpatte
Speed camera anarchist
I sold mine to Mark LJ after doing the update. Better, yes, but not zip perfect like the OMD-EM1 for example.
I hope Fuji get round to sticking some E-M2 and XT1 goodness into the X100 Mark III, and then give it a proper ground lens instead of a moulded one.
I hope Fuji get round to sticking some E-M2 and XT1 goodness into the X100 Mark III, and then give it a proper ground lens instead of a moulded one.