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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

Tony L said:
Labour having so little interest in democracy has to rule them out even if the word ‘social‘ is left up for debate.
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Labour have set themselves up in opposition to anything social or democratic. The only reliable bit of opposition they have achieved. Opposing the Tories in principle or policy was something Labour abandoned some time ago.
 
Spraggons Den said:
You do know who was in charge of the Chilean Junta?
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More selective quoting. I said, half heartedly at the time, that Starmer was “ideologically”…”somewhere between Thatcher and Pinochet”. Being ideologically between Thatcher and Pinochet is not the same saying Starmer is the same as Pinochet.

That said, in the last few days Starmer has demonstrated the extent that he is a supporter of the killing of thousands and thousands of civilians and children, many more being starved to death and a so far uncounted number having legs removed without anaesthetic every single day.

As you have given up trying to defend Starmer from a social democratic perspective, can you justify your devotion to someone who justifies war crimes and atrocities committed on a daily basis?
 
ks.234 said:
You can engage in your usual trollish evasion as much as you lik
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Deflection, moi.

Anyways Saturday night we saw Tom Allen at the Ipswich Regent. He was every bit as funny and interesting as we had hoped and to top it all he had a good warm act. Afraid I can’t remember her name but she was definitely from the north east. She said she might sound like a typical working class Geordie because her mum was English and she was brought up near Newcastle however her dad was Turkish. She said this meant she felt conflicted whenever she met someone new because one half of her wanted to cosmetically enhance their teeth whilst the other half wanted to knock them out.
 
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ks.234 said:
Twisting social democracy into a decade of LD history is first rather silly and second, nothing but another attempt at diversion
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Ok the Tom Allen ditt may have been a diversion but my asking how you rated the Liberal party was genuine. The reason I brought the LDs up is quite a few on here, including yourself maybe amongst your pages of repetitive drivel, have argued that the only reason Labour have held a 20 point lead in the polls for two years now is the fact that they are not the Tories. I am not disputing the lead is in large part due to Partygate and Trussgate but, and here is the big but, the LDs are also NOT the Tories and if Starmer is neither social nor democratic, why haven’t we seen a surge in support for the LDs as the natural refuge for disaffected centrists.One could also make the same argument for the Green Party but they too are languishing in the polls a bit. Just sayin.
 
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Spraggons Den said:
Ok the Tom Allen ditt may have been a diversion but my asking how you rated the Liberal party was genuine. The reason I brought the LDs up is quite a few on here, including yourself maybe amongst your pages of repetitive drivel, have argued that the only reason Labour have held a 20 point lead in the polls for two years now is the fact that they are not the Tories. I am not disputing the lead is in large part due to Partygate and Trussgate but, and here is the big but, the LDs are also NOT the Tories and if Starmer is neither social nor democratic, why haven’t we seen a surge in support for the LDs as the natural refuge for disaffected centrists.One could also make the same argument for the Green Party but they too are languishing in the polls a bit. Just sayin.
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More deflection now with the inevitable ad hom added. You are a man with nothing to say, who somehow manages to keep on saying it.

Two pages ago I asked why you support social democracy, yet vote for a party dedicated to undermining it.

All you have managed in response is bluster, diversion and personal insult.

You are a supporter of neoliberalism, not social democracy. Why can’t you come out and own it, or deny it, or formulate any sort of reasoned argument to defend your position?
 
It’s official. Labour seeks common purpose with the chief architect of Austerity to agree a “UK wide Growth Strategy”. We’ve had that for 14 years now, it should be obvious that if we want any sort of growth, we need something different, not more of the same

www.theguardian.com

Put aside differences to focus on growth across UK, Ed Balls tells politicians

Former shadow chancellor is one of the authors of a new academic paper on how to bridge the regional divide
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

How anyone, let alone self identifying social democrats, can vote for this coalition of economic illiteracy is beyond me
 
ks.234 said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1761725566628065605
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There is little doubt Labour are fully conflating antisemitism with Israel. As such they must be viewed as an active supporter of apartheid, genocide and ethnic cleansing. This is deeply racist and bigoted behaviour IMHO. The equivalent of arguing all Muslims/Asians are Al Qaeda/ISIS. The level of offensive idiocy one would expect from Yaxley Lennon or Lee Anderson. Even Farage is more nuanced than that.
 
Seanm said:
"The antisemitism...that is allowed to flourish in some communities in Britain."

Just straight up Islamophobia. Only difference between this and 30p is that Rachel knows to use the nudge-nudge formulations.
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Yes, Lee Anderson has only said clearly what Reeves really thinks.

Lee Anderson has more despicable integrity than Reeves.
 
ks.234 said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1761725566628065605
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Be very careful.

I have no wish to defend senior Labour figures such as Reeves, but what you’re “quoting” from here is not a neutral news source.

She is not unhinged in this clip, and while she does conflate the terms, what in the clip she urges for stopping is a list which includes anti-semitism, ie racism as well as the political element. The tweet is propagandistic.

She and Labour figures in general should be on the hook when they surely knowingly do this kind of tendentious conflation, but the type of tweet you have shared is often a tool of the hard right.
 
ks.234 said:
Yes, Lee Anderson has only said clearly what Reeves really thinks.

Lee Anderson has more despicable integrity than Reeves.
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Lee Anderson came from Labour and represents a lot of Labour thinking. I’ve said this many times before but the thing other than electoral reform that has kept me away from Labour all my voting life is the racism and social conservatism.

There have always been Lee Andersons in Labour. It is why the NF was always so active in Labour areas and Farage built on that with UKIP, Brexit Party, Reform etc. The mindset is ingrained regardless how many decent minority voices (Diane Abbott, Dawn Butler, Rosena Allin-Khan etc) they bring in to compensate. It is always there, and Starmer’s relentless anti-Asian purges has only reactivated all the Phil Woolas, John Mann, Ian Austin and Lee Anderson types. I’ve never been able to hold my nose long enough to vote for this.
 
Tony L said:
Lee Anderson came from Labour and represents a lot of Labour thinking. I’ve said this many times before but the thing other than electoral reform that has kept me away from Labour all my voting life is the racism and social conservatism. There have always been Lee Andersons in Labour. It is why the NF was always so active in Labour areas and Farage built on that with UKIP, Brexit Party, Reform etc. The mindset is ingrained regardless how many decent minority voices (Diane Abbott, Dawn Butler etc) they bring in to compensate. It is alway there, and Starmer’s relentless anti-Asian purges has only reactivated all the Phil Woolas, John Mann, Ian Austin and Lee Anderson types. I’ve just never been able to hold my nose long enough to vote for this.
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Right wing Labour generally reflects the areas in which they are based. The NE was notoriously backward for decades, Nottingham has a history of scabbing, Derbyshire on the other hand elected both Benn and Skinner. It probably reflects where union organisation was strongest i.e. politically active and where minorities were more integrated and tolerated/respected in the workplaces. The more cosmopolitan/student constituencies have been more progressive in the main.
 
gavreid said:
Right wing Labour generally reflects the areas in which they are based. The NE was notoriously backward for decades, Nottingham has a history of scabbing, Derbyshire on the other hand elected both Benn and Skinner. It probably reflects where union organisation was strongest i.e. politically active and where minorities were more integrated and tolerated/respected in the workplaces. The more cosmopolitan/student constituencies have been more progressive in the main.
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I agree. As an example it is great to see Liverpool resisting Starmerism and in many areas fielding independent candidates.

 
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