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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

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Kirk said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-grow-up-and-see-starmer-is-only-alternative

He's supporting here, he's supporting there...
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Are you fourteen years old? I really couldn’t give a shit in this instance about Mick Lynch’s inconsistency. The fact that a major trade union is offering support to Corbyn to stand as an independent is a hugely welcome development.

Please, in future, do spare me your impressive political perspicacity. It’s wasted on me: you cast your pearls before swine.
 
gavreid said:
You forget about Hartlepool - that shows that this is more about the Tories losing than Labour winning or the 'bastard traitor' himself. His wife persuaded the scab to carry on apparently. He has no appeal, no honour and worse, and no policies that voters want. If we didn't know it already this proves that the Right threw the 2019 election...
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I think you overestimate their power over the electorate - millions and millions of votes, really. Nah, Foot in 83, Kinnock in 87, Corbyn twice - the English aren’t ready for socialism yet. Maybe in the future after some environmental epoch.
 
Spraggons Den said:
I think you overestimate their power over the electorate - millions and millions of votes, really. Nah, Foot in 83, Kinnock in 87, Corbyn twice - the English aren’t ready for socialism yet. Maybe in the future after some environmental epoch.
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if that's your excuse...
 
gavreid said:
if that's your excuse...
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Corbyn was much more social democratic that he was socialist. Besides, both share the same objectives, they just differ how to get there.

The current Labour party is neoliberal, an ideology whose purpose was to dismantle the principles, objectives and achievements of social democracy and return to 19th century objectives

Want social demoracy, vote social democracy.
 
Spraggons Den said:
I think you overestimate their power over the electorate - millions and millions of votes, really. Nah, Foot in 83, Kinnock in 87, Corbyn twice - the English aren’t ready for socialism yet. Maybe in the future after some environmental epoch.
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If you are expecting a benign democracy after an environmental epoch then I have a bridge for sale.
 
Kirk said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-grow-up-and-see-starmer-is-only-alternative

He's supporting here, he's supporting there...
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The reality is that change can only occur via Westminster if people vote for what they truly need/want regardless of the presumption that its only a binary race between clones. The "Labour is the only alternative" religion simply becomes a self-sustaining prophecy.

Vote for what you *want* to become stronger, and the policies that will genuinely lead to improvements. Stand up and actually be honestly counted. At least that way you can say "Not in my name" if you fail. And if the votes for 'minor' parties rises, it can encourage others to do the same next time round.

Frankly, one way or another, we won't get out of the mess being made until people do the above. Between Climate Change and the Chumocracy we'll otherwise just be sacrificed to allow the ultra-wealthy to survive the fire that will burn the rest of us and our children. Validating the belief of the Tories (in all places) that we are here to be exploited by them.
 
Let's see the colour of his money

Labour ‘must spend billions on welfare or poverty will soar’​

Britain’s benefits system needs urgent reform, at a cost of £12bn, charities and experts warn

“people on low incomes too often cycle between low-paid, insecure roles and stints of unemployment” with the number of “economically inactive” people (those out of work and not actively looking for work) at record levels. “For too long, our welfare state has taken a punitive approach, ignoring individual motivations and challenges and wasting resources on approaches to that simply don’t work.”

The reports adds: “Decisive action in these areas will also be essential for any government working to break down the barriers that have held back our economy.”

www.theguardian.com

Labour ‘must spend billions on welfare or poverty will soar’

Britain’s benefits system needs urgent reform, at a cost of £12bn, charities and experts warn
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Spraggons Den said:
Choone Pinochet or choose Pochetino? Spookily similar and both the subject of your ire.
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Deceive-inveigle-obfuscate.jpg
 
Spraggons Den said:
Choone Pinochet or choose Pochetino? Spookily similar and both the subject of your ire.
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You can engage in your usual trollish evasion as much as you like, the question of how you can claim to identify as a social democrat while voting for the further evasion of social democracy will remain.

Social Democracy is amongst other things, a gradualist approach to economic intervention in the public interest.

Labour is a gradualist movement *away* from the objectives of social democracy. Labour’s moral, economic and philosophic ideology was designed as an attack on social democracy, to undermine the principles of social democracy, and to undo it’s achievements.

We have also seen in the last few days how profoundly undemocratic Labour is and how determined it is to support genocide, war crimes and ethnic cleansing.

Labour is no ideologically antithetical to social democracy.

Labour is a far right neoliberal enterprise. Own it or defend it.
 
ks.234 said:
Labour is a far right neoliberal enterprise.
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Yes, I think you may have said that one before….comparable with Chilean junta of the 80s and 90s apparently …… stop for a moment, take a deep breath and think just how ridiculous that notion is.

On the social democracy thing, in the UK political panoply this position has traditionally been attributed to the Liberal Democrats, so my question to you is would you ascribe Ed Daveys 2024, Swinsons 2019 or Nick Cleggs 2010 party’s to the LD category?

I have strapped myself into my chair in readiness for your reply.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Yes, I think you may have said that one before….comparable with Chilean junta of the 80s and 90s apparently …… stop for a moment, take a deep breath and think just how ridiculous that notion is.

On the social democracy thing, in the UK political panoply this position has traditionally been attributed to the Liberal Democrats, so my question to you is would you ascribe Ed Daveys 2024, Swinsons 2019 or Nick Cleggs 2010 party’s to the LD category?

I have strapped myself into my chair in readiness for your reply.
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You have zero integrity.

I did not say anything about comparability with Chilean Junta. That said, Starmer is complicit with genocide, ethnic cleansing and war crimes.

Twisting social democracy into a decade of LD history is first rather silly and second, nothing but another attempt at diversion away from the fact that you are a supporter all things anti social democracy while also claiming to be a social democrat.

I realise it must be difficult to justify your support of Labour from a social democratic perspective, but you should at least try instead of making stuff up
 
Labour having so little interest in democracy has to rule them out even if the word ‘social‘ is left up for debate.

PS Worth noting that after well over a century of cucked support for Tory establishment FPTP gerrymandering Labour passed a PR vote at conference… only for Starmer to override it and stick with a system that returns Tory governments with a minority vote to absolute power 80% of the time. Just Labour being Labour.
 
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