doctorf
left footed right winger
What’s that got to do with the comment I made?Do you still openly back the sleaze, criminality, racism and incompetence of Johnson’s Conservative Party?
Come on Tony, get a grip.
What’s that got to do with the comment I made?Do you still openly back the sleaze, criminality, racism and incompetence of Johnson’s Conservative Party?
I think he’s just coming out for corruption in general, as long as it’s levelled against the left.Do you still openly back the sleaze, criminality, racism and incompetence of Johnson’s Conservative Party?
I should post on this thread more often.I think he’s just coming out for corruption in general, as long as it’s levelled against the left.
What are “shots in”?I should post on this thread more often.
It’s like shots in.
I’m sure you will remember my early comments re Brexit and Johnson. It was always going to end in tears.I feel it is a fair question that should be asked of every Tory voter. They have taken the country to where it is right now and I’m curious if they have any remorse after seeing Johnson’s endless lying, cheating, theft of £bns, 250 MPs trying to rewrite parliamentary law to protect an obviously corrupt colleague, turning the Royal Navy on fleeing refugees etc etc etc. The list is endless.
We are where we are. Those of us who knew exactly what Johnson was and just how infatuated he was with Trump, Bannon etc have every right to question those who enabled this corruption and political extremism.
Did you never play shots in in the playground?What are “shots in”?
No, I was too busy playing kiss chase.Did you never play shots in in the playground?
These tories aint my tories?What’s that got to do with the comment I made?
Come on Tony, get a grip.
What are the values one holds most dear if one is a Tory?These tories aint my tories?
I do wonder how many people would still be Tories if they understood that the 'household budget' model of economics is a con?What are the values one holds most dear if one is a Tory?
Yes, agree 100%.I do wonder how many people would still be Tories if they understood that the 'household budget' model of economics is a con?
Post 200 upthread speaks volumes, to me, and I know we've also had some very interesting conversations recently about MMT and Keynsianism that broadly expose the monetarist myth for the con that it is. My feeling is that most people who believe the country is only safe in Tory hands do so because of that 'balancing the books' myth, and if you can actually peel them away from that idea, the other core values of the Tory party aren't ones many people would die in a ditch to defend. The whole 'small state' thing is about the cost of the state, not about personal freedom, and once people get that, then having a small state is no longer the thing that matters above all else. If you believe most people are basically fair and decent, given a chance, you might then hope they'll be more receptive to 'socialist' notions of community, and caring for the less fortunate/weaker member of society.
It's always felt to me that the appeal was a simple 'stands ter reason' logic, not so much an appeal to self-esteem. I think people can and do get much more sense of self-worth from making a contribution, whether that's a job well done or volunteering in the community. Individualism takes us away from the community, and it is the approval of the community which creates that sense of worth.Yes, agree 100%.
I think the big appeal of Monetarist Toryism is it’s appeal to individualism, a sense of pride in self, and we all need a bit of self esteem to get on at anything in this world.
I think the big appeal of Monetarist Toryism is it’s appeal to the individualism, a sense of pride in self, and we all need a bit of self esteem to get on at anything in this world.
I do wonder how many people would still be Tories if they understood that the 'household budget' model of economics is a con?
You ol’ leftie you…It's always felt to me that the appeal was a simple 'stands ter reason' logic, not so much an appeal to self-esteem. I think people can and do get much more sense of self-worth from making a contribution, whether that's a job well done or volunteering in the community. Individualism takes us away from the community, and it is the approval of the community which creates that sense of worth.
Quite. I'm not an economist, but I'm not alone in thinking that, enabled by the invention of the IS-LM model by John Hicks in 1937, 'Keynesianism' was put in shackles by people like Paul Samuelson (the so-called 'neo-classical synthesis'). This was what Joan Robinson, a colleague of Keynes, called 'bastard Keynesianism' - a kind of illegitimate child of Keynesianism.One does not have to be sold on MMT to consider such deficit talk to be misleading the public and damaging to the economy.
MMT may be niche, but opposition to what’s sometimes called deficit deceit (eg by Simon Wren Lewis, who’s an emeritus professor if you’re keeping up with top trumps) is much more widespread among economists.
My experience of the ordinary Tory voter comes from frequent visits to my Local whose clientele is about 95% Tory, Brexit supporters.
They think Boris has done a great job on Covid and Brexit; they are not bothered about Downing Street parties or sleaze and most would not know, or give a damn about, any nuance of economic theory.
They are not amenable to argument, reason, logic, evidence or facts (I do try from time to time) because they absolutely would not vote for the communist Labour or "that other little" Party.