I doubt PR will stop the rightwards shift, any evidence to the contrary? The LD's have been right of the Labour party on some issues, my late grandfather always called them 'Tories in disguise'. I dread to think of UKIP having MPs, they would obliterate any Green influence. Let's not forget that the LDs have recent form in propping up an austerity government.
Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VI
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Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
There’s no risk from UKIP - they’ve lost their sole raison d’etre. I guess there might be a risk from an anti-immigration party which campaigns on a platform which argues that the Government is not doing enough, but I can’t see that having much appeal. Maybe some anti-woke nut job group on the Laurence Fox/Piers Corbyn spectrum might emerge, but again, beyond a very small slice of the electorate I can’t see that gaining much traction either.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I thought their raisin dettre was anti-foreigner outrage and that’s hardly gone away. Patel has seen Farage’s guardians of the ports and raised him filtration camps in Rwanda.
Enfield boy
pfm Member
PR would see Farage and Laurence Fox and their ilk propping up the tories in the same way as gun toting religious lunatics prop up Likud. We need laws that are enforced against the rich and powerful to punish bribery, corruption, the cosy deals that see PMs pensions being "enhance" by ridiculous fees for after dinner speeches that are of no interest to anyone but are recompense for historic favours.
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
This is the economic pledge Starmer made during his campaign for the LP leadership:
Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.
Some good stuff in there surely which I can’t imagine BJ saying.
Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.
Some good stuff in there surely which I can’t imagine BJ saying.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Other Pledges made in the same document include:
“Introduce a Prevention of Military Intervention Act and put human rights at the heart of foreign policy” –
BROKEN ordering Labour MPs not to oppose the Tories’ widely-derided Overseas Operations Bill – a piece of legislation which effectively makes it legal for British troops to use torture against their opponents. Starmer also sacked three members of the Shadow Cabinet – Nadia Whittome, Beth Winter and Olivia Blake – for breaking to party whip by voting against the bill.
refusing to support self-determination for the Kashmiri people – a shift which led to more than 100 mosques and Islamic centres across the country threatening to boycott the party.
refused to support Labour’s current policy of sanctions against Israel if they break international law by annexing more Palestine territory.
“An immigration system based on compassion and dignity”
BROKEN refused to defend migrants crossing the channel – with critics claiming he was “turning a blind eye” to desperate people fleeing war and persecution to try and make it to the UK.
Rather than defending the rights of migrants to claim asylum in Britain – which is enshrined in the UN Refugee Convention – the Labour front bench merely criticised the government’s “incompetence” in dealing with migrants arriving on Britain’s shores.
“Work should to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay”
BROKEN Under Starmer, Labour have repeatedly opposed Teaching Unions regarding whether or not schools should be be open amid the pandemic.
During the first lockdown, leaked Labour briefings showed that the party leadership thought the Teaching Unions were acting as a “barrier” to children and their education, and also described how they believed the sacked Shadow Education Secretary, Rebecca Long-Bailey, had failed to “stand up to the National Education Union“.
In June, Labour ignored Union advice on the two-metre rule by supporting the government’s relaxtion of social distancing measures.
“Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament”
BROKEN As soon as he was announced as Labour leader, Starmer declared that he would not be ‘opposing the government for opposition’s sake’.
Starmer stating he would support “whatever measures the government takes” to deal with the ongoing pandemic.
Furthermore, despite the Tories presiding one of the highest Coronavirus death tolls in the world, the Labour leader genuinely praised the government for their “amazing Coronavirus response”.
Starmer also sent a secret letter to Boris Johnson promising to oppose Teaching Unions by supporting the Tories’ widely-derided stance of sending kids and teachers back to school during the ongoing pandemic
Furthermore, despite the Tories presiding one of the highest Coronavirus death tolls in the world, the Labour leader genuinely praised the government for their “amazing Coronavirus response”.
Starmer also sent a secret letter to Boris Johnson promising to oppose Teaching Unions by supporting the Tories’ widely-derided stance of sending kids and teachers back to school during the ongoing pandemic
“Unite our party”
ABSOLUTELY OBLITERATED
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
As my Mam used to say - “Oh well at least his heart is in the right place”.
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Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Er indeed….the link provided was from an interview nearly two years ago when Reeves wasn’t even Shadow Chancellor and she gave a politicians answer of keeping all options open on taxation anyway. There is nothing in the link to do with corporation tax or tax avoidance. I think you need to do some more ferreting around the inter web to find some better evidence.
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Who is going to pass those laws ? Shall we ask Blair how much $ he got for after dinner speeches in USA for supporting the illegal Iraq war ?
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Surely labours dead cat fruit machine pays out again for the tories?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
First of all, it was you who posted Starmer’s First Pledge, so I would have expected you to do just a little research yourself to see if they stand up. Second, you choose to ignore what Reeve did say about those promises and focus on other promises she was not talking about.
What has been clear for some time now is that Starmer’s actions do not back up his promises
There were 4 promises contained in that first pledge, the first was raising tax on top 5%. Reeves very clearly rowed back on that pledge.
The second was to reverse Tory cuts to corporation tax. In 2020 Starmer said, that this is “absolutely the wrong time to be talking about tax rises”. Starmer’s spokesman said the government should not be “floating ideas for new tax rises” amid an economic crisis.
The third promise was to Clamp Down on Tax Avoidance. While I accept that there has not been any statement in favour of tax avoidance, neither has there been any serious condemnation of tax avoidance over, for example, the Panama Papers and the Pandora Papers, probably because a number of Blairites are mentioned in those papers. It is also worth noting that Starmer’s own voting record on tax avoidance is, er, mixed https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25353/keir_starmer/holborn_and_st_pancras/divisions?policy=6690
The fourth promise was no stepping back from our core principles. Again there is nothing to suggest Starmer has stepped back on core principles, but as he still hasn’t set out what those principles actually are that is not saying a great deal.
Silence on core principles is not standing up for core principles.
But the bigger issue is that there were 9 other pledges, and the majority of those have been rowed back on or broken.
Corbyn was 7 out of 10 on the EU.
Starmer is 1 out of 10 for keeping his own self proclaimed promises
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
If the right place is Blair’s back pocket, your Mam is correct
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
What far left?
Tony L
Administrator
They’ve been pwnd by the Tories alt-right popularism. Labour are now so terrified of the right-wing tabloids and their own gammon voterbase that they remain 100% welded to the illiterate ‘household economics’ model so have actually allowed Sunak to outflank them on the left with yet another Tory magic money tree and huge borrowing. Labour assume they need costed policies whereas Johnson’s popularist Tories just don’t anymore. They can do whatever they like and stick the spoils in their donors pockets.
It is just the same with civil liberties, human rights violations etc; Labour are so terrified of the tabloid press their own racist voters that they very actively endorse the Tories utterly vile Rwanda refugee fascism etc. The Labour Party is an utter disgrace IMHO. Cowardly, zero ideology, ineffectual and morally bankrupt. They won’t even argue against the rigged system that keeps them in perpetual opposition.
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Technically speaking of course Starmer is actually 0 out of 10 because he has to have been PM for a reasonable amount of time before we can determine whether or not he has satisfied the criteria of the pledge.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
Point of order: the Lesser Evil strategy is specifically to do with US presidential elections when you have a literal binary choice. And more specifically 2016 when the choice was between a corporate centrist and an authoritarian racist game show host and 'Lesser' was doing an awful lot of work in allowing people to ignore the literal fascist and indulge in a lot of pearl clutching about Hilary Clinton. The other good example of Lesser Evil is Chirac vs Le Pen in 2002.
The political calculus when voting for MPs in the UK is obviously different as it's not a zero sum, binary choice and so tactical voting has a lot more scope for being worthwhile.
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