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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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Woodface said:
Does anybody on this thread actually want a Labour Government?
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Fair point, you would think the the left wing folks on here would see the benefit of holding their nose and voting for Starmer rather throwing away their vote on LD, Greens etc and letting the Tories in again with 40-44% of the poll.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Fair point, you would think the the left wing folks on here would see the benefit of holding their nose and voting for Starmer rather throwing away their vote on LD, Greens etc and letting the Tories in again with 40-44% of the poll.
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That is possible at any point between now and the election. However, the Labour Party is on a trajectory that seems planned to be more Tory than the Tories.

I live in hope that the Labour Party Changes their trajectory.
 
Woodface said:
Does anybody on this thread actually want a Labour Government?

From what I’ve read he came across well & doing one to one interviews with media doyens is probably a very good strategy to achieve cut through.
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Yes.

Many do not and prefer to help out the tories by undermining Labour.
 
Guys: nobody's voting for anyone, for years. And when they do, who lefties on here vote for is basically irrelevant. Barring a miracle, Labour ain't going to win, because they are serving up dog___ that nobody wants. Don't blame us, we strongly advised against dog___ as a policy platform, but to no avail.
 
Seanm said:
Guys: nobody's voting for anyone, for years. And when they do, who lefties on here vote for is basically irrelevant. Barring a miracle, Labour ain't going to win, because they are serving up dog___ that nobody wants. Don't blame us, we strongly advised against dog___ as a policy platform, but to no avail.
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Actually Sean, it’s been shouted here Labour is serving up nothing, the party has no policies, is all about focus groups and is more right wing than the extreme right wing tories
 
Brian said:
Actually Sean, it’s been shouted here Labour is serving up nothing, the party has no policies, is all about focus groups and is more right wing than the extreme right wing tories
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Nothing there...Yes, it's true isn't it. But there is definitely an odour.
 
Seanm said:
Nothing there...Yes, it's true isn't it. But there is definitely an odour.
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My position is centre left.

Obviously Labour is more to the right of where I prefer but the party is nowhere near as right wing as the tories and from my perspective would be a much better UK govt than the current one. Undermining Labour at every turn helps only the tories. I’ve never been an idealist and that’s the reality. Just as the Blair govt was not as left wing as I would prefer it was far better than the awful tory govt that preceded it.
 
Martyn Miles said:
Well, ks.234, I seem to recall that Blair’s first government was more Tory than previous Tory government.
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No, not at all. Blair buttered up the right for sure, but he did set out clear ideological differences between Labour and Tory, and had done consistently for years. (e.g. “Education, Education, Education”)

I see the Mandleson mania to keep moving right, but I don’t see the ideological difference.
 
This thread has become a parody really. It was created, seemingly, just to slag off Starmer before he even started. I personally think he is OK, struggling to think of anyone better within the ranks that the membership haven’t already rejected.

I find some of criticism of him to be overly personal & the fact that he is ‘clueless’ is often bandied around. He’s had an incredibly successful legal career & comes from relatively humble stock. He is an inexperienced politician but I would rather have someone who has achieved prior to office rather than just another career politico.

I don’t really understand the vitriol aimed at him; deep down some of the left do like their working classes to know their place.

Oh well, as you were. Reckon there will be at least 10 more pages of the SOS.
 
Woodface said:
This thread has become a parody really. It was created, seemingly, just to slag off Starmer before he even started. I personally think he is OK, struggling to think of anyone better within the ranks that the membership haven’t already rejected.

I find some of criticism of him to be overly personal & the fact that he is ‘clueless’ is often bandied around. He’s had an incredibly successful legal career & comes from relatively humble stock. He is an inexperienced politician but I would rather have someone who has achieved prior to office rather than just another career politico.

I don’t really understand the vitriol aimed at him; deep down some of the left do like their working classes to know their place.

Oh well, as you were. Reckon there will be at least 10 more pages of the SOS.
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Hats off. Spot on.
 
Brian said:
My position is centre left.

Obviously Labour is more to the right of where I prefer but the party is nowhere near as right wing as the tories and from my perspective would be a much better UK govt than the current one. Undermining Labour at every turn helps only the tories. I’ve never been an idealist and that’s the reality. Just as the Blair govt was not as left wing as I would prefer it was far better than the awful tory govt that preceded it.
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These guys are Blair *at the end of his run*: that is, bitter, confused, reduced to a few dogmatic gestures and despised by voters. There's a good chance if they ever got in they'd be worse than even the *current* Tories. But we'll never know!
 
Brian said:
My position is centre left.

.
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This is a genuine question Brian, because I do take you at your word when you say you’re centre left, but everything I’ve fallen out with you about, be it national identity or the role of slavery in our history, you’ve adopted the government line.

It might help avoid future disagreements if you can set out what it is that, for you, makes you centre left so that we can focus more on what we agree about, rather than on what we disagree
 
Woodface said:
This thread has become a parody really. It was created, seemingly, just to slag off Starmer before he even started. I personally think he is OK, struggling to think of anyone better within the ranks that the membership haven’t already rejected.

I find some of criticism of him to be overly personal & the fact that he is ‘clueless’ is often bandied around. He’s had an incredibly successful legal career & comes from relatively humble stock. He is an inexperienced politician but I would rather have someone who has achieved prior to office rather than just another career politico.

I don’t really understand the vitriol aimed at him; deep down some of the left do like their working classes to know their place.

Oh well, as you were. Reckon there will be at least 10 more pages of the SOS.
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Surely by now we should be able to see the case *for* Starmer? If the case for Starmer was stronger than the case against him, perhaps he’d be more popular
 
I don’t think Starmer is the issue, I think it’s quite simply the Labour Party is struggling to impose itself when it has absolutely no policy. I genuinely don’t see any vision emerging. This is not Starmer’s fault, it’s the fault of the NEC, and probably the circumstances. The democratic nature of the party, the fact that policy is accepted by conference, means he’s got nothing to bat with. In cricketing terms he’s strode out to the crease but instead of a bat he’s got a baguette. In addition it’s a time of crisis, would anyone listen to any grand policy announcements. It’s an unenviable position to be in. He does now I believe need to enter some sort of campaign mode, and start some debate, campaign on some issue. The question is what?
 
lordsummit said:
I don’t think Starmer is the issue, I think it’s quite simply the Labour Party is struggling to impose itself when it has absolutely no policy. I genuinely don’t see any vision emerging. This is not Starmer’s fault, it’s the fault of the NEC, and probably the circumstances. The democratic nature of the party, the fact that policy is accepted by conference, means he’s got nothing to bat with. In cricketing terms he’s strode out to the crease but instead of a bat he’s got a baguette. In addition it’s a time of crisis, would anyone listen to any grand policy announcements. It’s an unenviable position to be in. He does now I believe need to enter some sort of campaign mode, and start some debate, campaign on some issue. The question is what?
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Yes, agree, but he did start out with a bat. It had 10 pledges on it. He threw it away and hasn’t found anything to replace it with.

As we get closer to the next GE, and Labour get closer in the polls and start to announce something substantial, Starmer is going to be asked about his 10 pledges, if he stands by them he’s a Corbynite, if he denies them, he's a liar
 
ks.234 said:
Yes, agree, but he did slide out with a bat. It had 10 pledges on it. He threw it away and hasn’t found anything to replace it with.
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The trouble is, the pledges are fantastic, but after he’s invoked them, someone would ask what he’d do, and that’s where the issue lies. Some competency seems to have been established, let’s see a vision for the future soon, and somehow they’ve got to make it different to the Conservative one of keep promising everything even when you know they can’t deliver.
 
lordsummit said:
I don’t think Starmer is the issue, I think it’s quite simply the Labour Party is struggling to impose itself when it has absolutely no policy. I genuinely don’t see any vision emerging. This is not Starmer’s fault, it’s the fault of the NEC, and probably the circumstances. The democratic nature of the party, the fact that policy is accepted by conference, means he’s got nothing to bat with. In cricketing terms he’s strode out to the crease but instead of a bat he’s got a baguette. In addition it’s a time of crisis, would anyone listen to any grand policy announcements. It’s an unenviable position to be in. He does now I believe need to enter some sort of campaign mode, and start some debate, campaign on some issue. The question is what?
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This is correct but I don’t think few, if any, of the posts on here reflect that. Similar thing happened with Churchill, as soon as the crisis went he lost validity.

We all mix in different circles but I am surprised at how many people I meet in my job who think the government ‘cannot really do anymore’; I don’t agree with this, certainly over the totality of the period.

They are benefiting from a vaccine bounce & a relieved electorate who dare not look too far ahead.
 
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