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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer III

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ks.234 said:
Left of centre politics is dead, and the Labour Party killed it.
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I don’t think that is true, I just don’t think Labour has any place anywhere near it. It has been on the wrong side of just about every political argument all my voting life. I have never thought of Labour as being anything other than an archaic hopelessly bureaucratic and authoritarian trough-feeding career entity, be that the party itself, or the modern trade union movement. Screw it. Shoot it in the head. Start again.

I’m now at the stage that I’d actually still vote Green if I lived in a Tory/Lab marginal as my contempt for Labour is at such a level. I want my vote counted and I’m not prepared to vote for any anti-democracy (i.e. anti-PR) party. Such votes will still be registered from a national voteshare perspective any will hopefully highlight how obsolete and distrusted Labour have become.
 
I guess now the Tories have turned into Trump/Tea Party/Q-Anon it is only fitting that Labour turn into UKIP/EDL.

PS I seem to have misplaced the Overton Window, I used to be able to see it from here...
 
Tony L said:
I don’t think that is true, I just don’t think Labour has any place anywhere near it. It has been on the wrong side of just about every political argument all my voting life. I have never thought of Labour as being anything other than an archaic hopelessly bureaucratic and authoritarian trough-feeding career entity, be that the party itself, or the modern trade union movement. Screw it. Shoot it in the head. Start again.

I’m now at the stage that I’d actually still vote Green if I lived in a Tory/Lab marginal as my contempt for Labour is at such a level. I want my vote counted and I’m not prepared to vote for any anti-democracy (i.e. anti-PR) party. Such votes will still be registered from a national voteshare perspective any will hopefully highlight how obsolete and distrusted Labour have become.
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Agree with much of that. To be honest I’m very angry with the Labour party. After a brief struggle the black-out curtains have been pulled tightly shut on a brief window of opportunity for left of centre politics, and yes, the Labour Party is back in control of authoritarian right wing trough-feeders

I’ve pretty much turned my back on the Labour Party. The problem now is where do I turn? The voting record of the last two Lib Dem leaders rings alarms bells, and the Greens, at a local level at least, couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.
 
ks.234 said:
I’ve pretty much turned my back on the Labour Party. The problem now is where do I turn? The voting record of the last two Lib Dem leaders rings alarms bells, and the Greens, at a local level at least, couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.
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The voting record of the LDs has always been to the liberal/left of Labour. They stand against authoritarianism, against nationalism, against war, for green matters, for electoral reform etc. They are clearly better than Labour on voting record. The Greens are arguably better again, but I agree have organisational and local issues (much down to funding in fairness). By saying that nothing compared with Labour (the Labour MPs around here have been highly dubious even on a Tory scale, e.g. Danczuk, Woolas, Blears etc, a bunch of thieves, sex pests or racists).

The Greens have the potential to grow as they do genuinely represent the views of a significant percentage of the population. They are destroyed by a deliberately fixed electoral system, but I’m sure would become a major player if we ever implemented a proper democracy. I’m sure this is why Labour keep propping up the Tory establishment FPTP system, which was designed from the off to return Tory governments with minority support. Labour grasp that if they support PR the Green vote will likely go to 25-30% and they’ll never be in absolute power again. As ever, trough first, national interest second.

PS The only thing Labour could do to get my vote is have a manifesto pledge to implement PR. No debate, no referendumb, just bloody do it. I would lend them my vote for that single election. Other than that I never plan to go near them again.
 
Tony L said:
The voting record of the LDs has always been to the liberal/left of Labour. They stand against authoritarianism, against nationalism, against war, for green matters, for electoral reform etc...
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Here’s a few screen shots of Ed Davey’s voting record...

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He doesn’t seem to like the poor...

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....does like the rich....

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....and likes the Tory decimation of Education

Sorry, but for me the Lib Dem’s really don’t offer an alternative to Labour, on Welfare they seem even worse!
 
ks.234 said:
Sorry, but for me the Lib Dem’s really don’t offer an alternative to Labour, on Welfare they seem even worse!
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Yes, that doesn’t look good at all. I thought he was a little better than that. I guess my memory is on the big-ticket stuff that Labour got so horrifically wrong, e.g. Iraq, ever creeping authoritarianism, PFI, Brexit, even more authoritarianism etc. As an independent small business owner/contractor I’ve tended to think the LDs are less overtly hostile than either the Tories (elite wealth, corporate donors, tax siphoning) or Labour (lumpen proletariat, unionised labour, bureaucracy). Neither represent the rest of us at all.

There aren’t any of them I can get behind to be honest, though it is Labour that annoy me the most as the Tories do exactly what one would expect them to (corruption, self-interest, racism, nationalism, authoritarianism etc). One would hope Labour were less shit than they are, but time and again they lower the bar.
 
Tony L said:
Yes, that doesn’t look good at all. I thought he was a little better than that. I guess my memory is on the big-ticket stuff that Labour got so horrifically wrong, e.g. Iraq, ever creeping authoritarianism, PFI, Brexit, even more authoritarianism etc. As an independent small business owner/contractor I’ve tended to think the LDs are less overtly hostile than either the Tories (elite wealth, corporate donors, tax siphoning) or Labour (lumpen proletariat, unionised labour, bureaucracy). Neither represent the rest of us at all.

There aren’t any of them I can get behind to be honest, though it is Labour that annoy me the most as the Tories do exactly what one would expect them to (corruption, self-interest, racism, nationalism, authoritarianism etc). One would hope Labour were less shit than they are, but time and again they lower the bar.
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I think your ideas about the Lib-Dems are out of date by about a decade. They might have been true in the days of New Labour and Charles Kennedy but Clegg's leadership marked a decisive shift to the right on economics. Ed Davey's victory over Layla Moran suggests that the members are still OK with that.

Doesn't mean there aren't progressive voices in the LDs, just as there are progressive voices in Labour, even though Starmer is in charge, but it does mean it will be a battle to get those voices heard.

Was poking around the Sheffield Green Party site the other day. Moderately tempted but I'm afraid it will be a bunch of middle-class liberal types with little in the way of political analysis. Don't really have time for politics at the moment anyway.
 
droodzilla said:
Was poking around the Sheffield Green Party site the other day. Moderately tempted but I'm afraid it will be a bunch of middle-class liberal types with little in the way of political analysis.
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As a middle class liberal with little in the way of political analysis I’m liking the idea of that. Count me in!
 
Let us not forget the benefits of Brexit:

Longest working week
Highest retirement age
Lowest state pension

Yay! Go Little Brexitland!
 
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