advertisement


Labour Leader: Keir Starmer II

Status
Not open for further replies.
Last edited:
Woodface said:
How is this relevant to Extinction rebellion?

Advertisers will pull content from titles if it has a negative effect on their brand. I work on the other side of the fence & know how seriously some advertisers take this.
Click to expand...

Woodface said:
The other side of the coin is that advertisers trying to influence editorial policy is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Yes, I realise they are different, the XR thing is direct action, the SFH is indirect, but both are aimed at shifting the editorial policy of the media, something you don't approve of.
 
Be fair. Johnson might've banned the Mirror, the GMB, C4 etc, but he did also ban himself from Andrew Neil and most of the Free Press before the election, so all's fair in the long run surely?
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Yes, I realise they are different, the XR thing is direct action, the SFH is indirect, but both are aimed at shifting the editorial policy of the media, something you don't approve of.
Click to expand...
They are two different things.

XR have an agenda that is potentially valid but I am not sure I agree with their tactics.

The defund movement is essentially trying to pressure advertisers to pull campaigns which is a very blunt instrument. To be clear there should always be a very distinct separation between advertising & editorial.
 
Woodface said:
They are two different things.

XR have an agenda that is potentially valid but I am not sure I agree with their tactics.

The defund movement is essentially trying to pressure advertisers to pull campaigns which is a very blunt instrument. To be clear there should always be a very distinct separation between advertising & editorial.
Click to expand...
Oddly, I don't think we're all that far apart, but I think we're disagreeing nevertheless. I'd argue that SFH has a case which is just as important as XR's, and for similar reasons - the media has power to influence public opinion and support. If the media chooses to support the neoliberal agenda, as it is doing, climate change won't get addressed. They'll spend their time and energy in making it look like it's being dealt with, instead.

If you disagree with the tactics, what would you recommend in their place? It seems to me, we've tried lobbying and polite discussion. Direct action of one form or another, whether peaceful protest and disruption (XR) or applying pressure to affect the media in vulnerable areas (SFH), feels like the only way we make changes. The Media, and Government, is not for turning, else.
 
droodzilla said:
The Tories were always going to follow their hard-right authoritarian instincts on this. Unfortunately, Starmer's feeble response to yesterday's action has made it virtually impossible for Labour to criticise this attack on the right to peaceful protest.
Click to expand...

I'd go further, I think he emboldened Patel and Johnson
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Oddly, I don't think we're all that far apart, but I think we're disagreeing nevertheless. I'd argue that SFH has a case which is just as important as XR's, and for similar reasons - the media has power to influence public opinion and support. If the media chooses to support the neoliberal agenda, as it is doing, climate change won't get addressed. They'll spend their time and energy in making it look like it's being dealt with, instead.

If you disagree with the tactics, what would you recommend in their place? It seems to me, we've tried lobbying and polite discussion. Direct action of one form or another, whether peaceful protest and disruption (XR) or applying pressure to affect the media in vulnerable areas (SFH), feels like the only way we make changes. The Media, and Government, is not for turning, else.
Click to expand...
They are separate causes & it is possible to agree with one & not another.

I don’t think XR tactics will work, I personally believe in more support for active travel but it is so difficult to take on motorists. I am not sure trying to limit the delivery of papers is a great move.

I would rather the focus on hate speech is aimed at google/Facebook duopoly than press.
 
Woodface said:
They are separate causes & it is possible to agree with one & not another.

I don’t think XR tactics will work, I personally believe in more support for active travel but it is so difficult to take on motorists. I am not sure trying to limit the delivery of papers is a great move.

I would rather the focus on hate speech is aimed at google/Facebook duopoly than press.
Click to expand...
I think it's a great move and am cheering them on. Here's hoping they can staunch Murdoch's poison permanently.
 
wylton said:
@ks.234 are you saying that in your view, the Labour party is beyond redemption?
Click to expand...
The obvious question is, Redemption from what? If it’s the sins of the right wing group within Labour that conspired against it for so long, then I see no sign of it. If it’s that apparent drift to the right ever since, then again, I see no sign of it.

Perhaps it would be more beneficial to turn the question around, where are the signs of hope that Labour is not drifting towards the right? Starmer has failed to stand up for the unions, for the teachers, for asylum seekers, and now for the right to protest, where is the hope that Labour will stand up for something ?
 
Extinction Rebellion, Black Lives Matter, Stop Funding Hate, Led By Donkeys, Gina Miller, the Greens etc are the only real political opposition we have in Little England at present IMHO. The Lib Dems, whilst not quite as hopeless as Labour (who have let me down for a whole lifetime), are definitely not at a level I’d consider voting for right now. To be honest I suspect I’m actually done with voting now, it is just a waste of my time, though I do donate to some of the movements and pressure groups listed.

For clarity: I don’t agree with some Extinction Rebellion/BLM practices, e.g. I am opposed to vandalism (exception made for Bristol slave trader) and damaging people’s businesses. That is out of order. Peaceful disruption is fine. The more of it the better.
 
Tony L said:
Extinction Rebellion, Black Lives Matter, Stop Funding Hate, Led By Donkeys, Gina Miller, the Greens etc are the only real political opposition we have at present IMHO. The Lib Dems, whilst not quite as hopeless as Labour (who have let me down for a whole lifetime), are definitely not at a level I’d consider voting for right now. To be honest I suspect I’m actually done with voting now, it is just a waste of my time, though I do donate to some of the movements and pressure groups listed.

For clarity: I don’t agree with some Extinction Rebellion/BLM practices, e.g. I am opposed to vandalism (exception made for Bristol slave trader) and damaging people’s businesses. That is out of order. Peaceful disruption is fine.
Click to expand...
I pretty much agree, though I think there are some circumstances in which 'damaging people's businesses' is acceptable. Namely when said businesses are actively harming society or the environment, and seem disinclined to change without some 'robust encouragement'. I agree that physical damage is seldom if ever warranted, but taking steps to increase their reputational and financial risks are very much part of the playbook.
 
Woodface said:
They are separate causes & it is possible to agree with one & not another.

I don’t think XR tactics will work, I personally believe in more support for active travel but it is so difficult to take on motorists. I am not sure trying to limit the delivery of papers is a great move.

I would rather the focus on hate speech is aimed at google/Facebook duopoly than press.
Click to expand...
Who knows if XR s' tactics will work but one thing for sure is nothing else has worked so far, nor shows any signs of doing so.

I don't see any group other than XR acting with the urgency that is obviously required.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I pretty much agree, though I think there are some circumstances in which 'damaging people's businesses' is acceptable. Namely when said businesses are actively harming society or the environment, and seem disinclined to change without some 'robust encouragement'. I agree that physical damage is seldom if ever warranted, but taking steps to increase their reputational and financial risks are very much part of the playbook.
Click to expand...

It depends on the definition of ‘damaging’, e.g. I’d like nothing more than to see Stop Funding Hate starve the far-right gutter press out of existence by persuading advertisers to go elsewhere, but I’d not support setting fire to the Daily Mail printers or whatever. There are always far sharper and cleverer approaches than violence. Led By Donkeys are superb at this too in using considerable advertising skills to get anti-fascist anti-Brexit messages across. I have happily donated to both of these as I’m totally comfortable with their style of disruption.
 
I opposed to the silly tactic of having people arrested just for the heck of it, but I think they've realised that now
 
roman said:
Who knows if XR s' tactics will work but one thing for sure is nothing else has worked so far, nor shows any signs of doing so.

I don't see any group other than XR acting with the urgency that is obviously required.
Click to expand...
That is a poor argument.

Last year they blockaded roads, I don’t see any momentum.

I think there are better ways; how about citizens making good choices? Reduce unnecessary car journeys, fewer trips abroad, smart working practices, reduce use of plastic. Unfortunately I think we have a significant minority of entitled idiots (a high % of motorists) who bully the rest into submission.

I am still not sure targeting newspaper distribution is smart but it is not really a hill I am prepared to die on;)
 
Woodface said:
That is a poor argument.

Last year they blockaded roads, I don’t see any momentum.

I think there are better ways; how about citizens making good choices? Reduce unnecessary car journeys, fewer trips abroad, smart working practices, reduce use of plastic. Unfortunately I think we have a significant minority of entitled idiots (a high % of motorists) who bully the rest into submission.

I am still not sure targeting newspaper distribution is smart but it is not really a hill I am prepared to die on;)
Click to expand...
XR don't get everything right, some of what they do is unappealing and annoying, much of it grates with me too, but I see that mostly as a failing in me.

XR have managed to come a long way in a short time employing their methods. In a world run by big business, right wing media barons and climate change denying leaders, that's good going for a fairly amateur but committed band of activists.

Their activities don't preclude all of the methods on your list. I agree with them too

For all those opposed to their methods I would ask what level of famine, sea level rise, economic collapse etc would it take before you undertook similar actions or even thought them tame?

You might be right about motorists in this country. I must admit I am one, albeit I try to minimise my car journeys.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top