Labour at it again... anti-Semitism... #II

[Joe]

Nationalism does always equate with progressivism. Usually the test is around oppression and whether the nationalist approch is a reaction to that and I certainly don't think anyone could reasonably argue that the Scots are oppressed within the UK. The SNP are not Tories but they are a pro-business, centre-right party.

I have been looking forward to Scottish independence for many years now.

 

[ks.234]

...... champagne socialists on here......

Care to name a few?

 

[gassor]

So Labour wants to form an alliance with the SNP in case of a GE?

 

[gavreid]

He made these comments at the Edinburgh fringe BTW, talk about knowing your audience

Labour has to differentiate itself from the SNP or what is the point? He made quite a departure from Labour policy in saying that he supported a new referrendum. I think where Labour effed up was in supporting the Union (essentially the Tories) at the referrendum. I think, for what it's worth, the SNP should be very wary of chasing a 52:48 vote

 

[Still]

You're inventing a second non-issue out of how Labour deals with an exaggerated, largely invented issue.

istm tying yourself in knots about something that you claim doesn't exist is a bit odd.
Possibly even you don't believe your drivel.

We'll see at the next GE, when people have to make a choice between continuing down this far-right path or whether a majority takes the option of sensible, social policies going forward, along with a chance at a second referendum on leaving the EU. People like you, helping the anti-Labour smear campaign are promoting a continuation down that far-right road.

Ignorant/complacent/blithe support is a major factor as to what has got Labour in to its' current mess.
Yet you appear to believe everyone and everything, except Labour and your wokementum associates, is responsible for LP's ongoing failures.

The SNP are not Tories but they are a pro-business, centre-right party.

Incorrect.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2017

 

[Tony L]

Incorrect.

I’m far from convinced Labour’s position on that map is even remotely accurate! They were hopelessly authoritarian under Blair (think Blunkett, Straw etc), just plain nasty, and much of the party of that era remains, plus their capitulation to the UKIP/Tory Brexit project has to count as both seriously authoritarian and right-wing IMO. This is the ugly face of far-right English nationalism and any party either supporting or enabling it needs to be stained with that reality.

 

[Still]

I’m far from convinced Labour’s position on that map is even remotely accurate! They were hopelessly authoritarian under Blair (think Blunkett, Straw etc), just plain nasty, and much of the party of that era remains, plus their capitulation to the UKIP/Tory Brexit project has to count as both seriously authoritarian and right-wing IMO. This is the ugly face of far-right English nationalism and any party either supporting or enabling it needs to be stained with that reality.

Good point. The map is from 2017, so quite out of date for Labour.
But istm SNP haven't changed much since then, so a reasonable illustration SNP's centre-leftism.

 

[gavreid]

istm tying yourself in knots about something that you claim doesn't exist is a bit odd.
Possibly even you don't believe your drivel.



Ignorant/complacent/blithe support is a major factor as to what has got Labour in to its' current mess.
Yet you appear to believe everyone and everything, except Labour and your wokementum associates, is responsible for LP's ongoing failures.



Incorrect.

The map is just nonsense. You can throw in some liberal social policies but when push comes to shove the SNP, like the lib-dems too, are a centre-right party. The social policies will be last in line when it comes to the management of the economy.

 

[Woodface]

Labour has to differentiate itself from the SNP or what is the point? He made quite a departure from Labour policy in saying that he supported a new referrendum. I think where Labour effed up was in supporting the Union (essentially the Tories) at the referrendum. I think, for what it's worth, the SNP should be very wary of chasing a 52:48 vote

Yes, but the everybody but Labour is Tory shtick is maybe a bit tired?

 

[Tony L]

The map is just nonsense. You can throw in some liberal social policies but when push comes to shove the SNP, like the lib-dems too, are a centre-right party. The social policies will be last in line when it comes to the management of the economy.

That is just basic reality. Social policies always cost money and need someone to foot the bill, i.e. a buoyant economy. If Corbyn is really dragging Labour back into student union magic money tree territory at time of an impending recession he stands less than zero chance of being elected by anyone other than disenfranchised losers with their hands out! Anyone with a job won’t want to go anywhere near the spiralling inflation that would come from mass borrowing by a weak and increasingly isolated country with a rapidly declining economy. A centre progressive government trying to save the economy is the only sensible option given what is ahead.

 

[Still]

The map is just nonsense. You can throw in some liberal social policies but when push comes to shove the SNP, like the lib-dems too, are a centre-right party. The social policies will be last in line when it comes to the management of the economy.

When push came to shove the SNP have enacted numerous socially progressive policies e.g. free prescriptions, no HE course fees, free personal and nursing care, etc.
Claiming the SNP being centre right is nonsense - unless you have something to cite.

 

[gavreid]

When push came to shove the SNP have enacted numerous socially progressive policies e.g. free prescriptions, no HE course fees, etc.
Claiming the SNP being centre right is nonsense - unless you have something to cite.

The Tories had free prescriptions and free HE with grants too. The UK is a very rich country but if that's the limit of your aspirations...

 

[Still]

The Tories had free prescriptions and free HE with grants too. The UK is a very rich country but if that's the limit of your aspirations...

"Had" being the operative word. Abandonment of your assertion of SNP being centre right duly noted.

 

[gavreid]

"Had" being the operative word. Abandonment of your assertion of SNP being centre right duly noted.

So the Tories have moved further to the right. So what! Politics isn't static, it's a constant battle of ideas!

 

[Seanm]

That is just basic reality. Social policies always cost money and need someone to foot the bill, i.e. a buoyant economy. If Corbyn is really dragging Labour back into student union magic money tree territory at time of an impending recession he stands less than zero chance of being elected by anyone other than disenfranchised losers with their hands out! Anyone with a job won’t want to go anywhere near the spiralling inflation that would come from mass borrowing by a weak and increasingly isolated country with a rapidly declining economy. A centre progressive government trying to save the economy is the only sensible option given what is ahead.

Only Labour (and Greens, in fairness) have acknowledged that the economy needs some serious attention. Tories and Lib Dems have no clue as to how to make the economy buoyant - it’s all just re-heated Reaganomics.

“Losers with their hands out”: Lib Dem gloves are off, aren’t they?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

That is just basic reality. Social policies always cost money and need someone to foot the bill, i.e. a buoyant economy. If Corbyn is really dragging Labour back into student union magic money tree territory at time of an impending recession he stands less than zero chance of being elected by anyone other than disenfranchised losers

But isn’t this pretty much what the Johnson has been doing for the last couple of weeks, too?

 

[ks.234]

But isn’t this pretty much what the Johnson has been doing for the last couple of weeks, too?

and some....

 

[Still]

So the Tories have moved further to the right. So what! Politics isn't static, it's a constant battle of ideas!

nss

Only Labour (and Greens, in fairness) have acknowledged that the economy needs some serious attention. Tories and Lib Dems have no clue as to how to make the economy buoyant - it’s all just re-heated Reaganomics.

“Losers with their hands out”: Lib Dem gloves are off, aren’t they?

LP are terrified of LDs, and quite right too.

 

[gassor]

Labour has to differentiate itself from the SNP or what is the point? He made quite a departure from Labour policy in saying that he supported a new referrendum. I think where Labour effed up was in supporting the Union (essentially the Tories) at the referrendum. I think, for what it's worth, the SNP should be very wary of chasing a 52:48 vote

Where Labour effed up was blatantly contradicting Scottish Labour policy behind the back of the Scottish leader. R Leonard has been a faithful acolyte of Corbyn and now he has been thrown under the bus. So much for the kinder politics we were promised. "Richard Leonard has been very clear and very strong on the constitutional question. A new referendum is “not needed and not wanted”. Party conference has passed policy. Yet it would appear McDonnell only discussed this with the leader of the Scottish party after he had made his views public. The Scotsman" So much for internal democracy in the Labour party.

 

[JonR]

Where Labour effed up was blatantly contradicting Scottish Labour policy behind the back of the Scottish leader. R Leonard has been a faithful acolyte of Corbyn and now he has been thrown under the bus. So much for the kinder politics we were promised. "Richard Leonard has been very clear and very strong on the constitutional question. A new referendum is “not needed and not wanted”. Party conference has passed policy. Yet it would appear McDonnell only discussed this with the leader of the Scottish party after he had made his views public. The Scotsman" So much for internal democracy in the Labour party.

Utterly ridiculous comments by McDonnell, who in the space of one careless comment totally undermined the entire Scottish arm of his own party (and its Corbynite leader) in his desparate bid for power. It was also an implicit admission that Labour stands zero chance of gaining an overall majority on its own at a general election.