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Labour at it again ..... anti-semitic just won't go away !

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I like the one where proud Tories cut funding support for the most vulnerable to the bone, give tax relief to the richest and allow people in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, to have rely on food banks to feed their children. I'd be dead proud of that one; it's a cracker!
 
Mescalito said:
Proud is probably the wrong word. Comfortable fits the bill better.
Chris
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Yes a much better descriptor. It is so nice to be comfortable that it's ok to cut funding support for the most vulnerable to the bone, give tax relief to the richest and allow people in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, to have rely on food banks to feed their children.
 
richgilb said:
When I make my first mil, I'm getting these. And then I'll be talking shite in audio too, with some braying and gloating added to the mix. https://www.adam-audio.com/en/s-series/s5v/
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I've heard some of the bigger Adam speakers. Distinctly uninspiring. Mind you.. they were in a Linn dealership driven by Linn amps. Nice tea though. Proper pot and everything.

Mescalito said:
The Dead, The Airplane, Dylan, Jackie Leven, R.E.M., The Clash, Television, Miles Davis, The Byrds, Randy Newman, The Fall, HMHB, Weather Report, and a shitload more.
And I am a proud Tory.
Chris
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When I studied Politics at uni, we covered all of the major political theories from Plato through to Rousseau, Machiavelli, Hobbes, Locke, Burke,Payne, Engels, Marx et al.,also lots of sociology, economics .. blah blah. We were discussing the coming 1983 election and one of my fellow students, a pleasant enough lad, declared that he sympathised with 'the workers' and wasn't keen on Thatch, but would be voting Tory because his Dad, an Officer in the army, would do better under them. I didn't respond. Inside I despaired.
Another fellow student.. the lovely Sarah.. went on to work at Conservative Central Office.

I suppose it's a sort of mental compartmentalisation. It reminds me a bit of the way in which people who would not associate with or share a restaurant/bus/toilet with Blacks, would happily allow said Blacks to entertain them.. so long as they used the tradesmen's entrance.
 
Seanm said:
Excellent article from JC:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...isemitism-labour-party?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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In many ways, I think he's carefully articulating what most people believe to be the position. I might be in a minority here (not unusual) but I'm beginning to lose patience with the jewish community excessively pressurising our political system. I am very far from a Corbyn sympathiser, and whilst I think that some of his middle east rhetoric is somewhat naive, it is his right to express it and it is without question not based on any form of anti semitism but perhaps a slightly idealistic humanitarianism.

Similarly I'm not convinced that this is being driven by the mainstream media, it appears to me to be a cynical and aggressive attempt to influence a democratic political process and stifle discussion about a complex situation around Israel by steering it towards discrimination. It might be beneficial if it was no longer referred to as anti-semitism, but rather encompassed under racial, or ethnic, or religious discrimination. I appreciate that some Jewish people would prefer to have a specific label to cover their own exclusive occurrence of discrimination but I don't have any specific umbrella that would cover discrimination against me in a racial sense so perhaps dispensing with labels might help us all in the long run.
 
TPA said:
... I might be in a minority here (not unusual) but I'm beginning to lose patience with the jewish community excessively pressurising our political system.
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In all big England, only Jewish comunity pressuring the political system?
Do you lose patient because of pressure of other groups but the jews?

Or maybe England is not as democracy as described and not like it goes in the rest of democracies, in England there are no groups (but the Jews, of course) that are trying to tend the governance to what they think is their interests?

Arye
 
ariegur said:
In all big England, only Jewish comunity pressuring the political system?
Do you lose patient because of pressure of other groups but the jews?

Or maybe England is not as democracy as described and not like it goes in the rest of democracies, in England there are no groups (but the Jews, of course) that are trying to tend the governance to what they think is their interests?

Arye
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Personally, I have no sympathy for any group which tries to put pressure on the political system by deliberately misrepresenting the situation. It brought us to Brexit, it has got hugely damaging governments elected, and it is not in the wider interests of this community. We're not singling out the Jewish lobby, on the Brexit thread and elsewhere many lobbies are criticised, but this thread is about antisemitism, so we're discussing the Jewish lobby here, and criticising it where criticism appears to be due.

You appear to be implying that this discussion has taken an antisemitic turn. It hasn't; what you're doing is playing the antisemitic card to stifle legitimate debate. This is the problem. This is often the problem, and until the Israeli lobby stops doing it, we need to call it out whenever we see it.
 
To me, the distinguishing feature of what has been happening is that much of the criticisim of JC is being done on a basis like 'guilt by association'. Almost to the point of saying he must be AS because he once bought an ice-cream from someone who at some other time made an AS comment! He gets put into a 'no way to win' situation then by the media who fail to properly probe and explain the accusations.

e.g. When he has appeared on a 'platform' where *someone else* says something presented as AS then JC is presumed to share or support that view simply because he was there. Yet when he wants to give a speech at the Jewish Museum the instant reaction is for those criticising him to say that they'll never go to that museum again if they let him speak there.

I have no idea if there is an organised 'lobby' going on to do this, although it does look like it. But it suits the right wing newspaper owners, and various people distinguished by their wealth and power rather than their race, religion, etc. Hence the Daily Hate duly presents the attacks as 'facts'. Even media conduits like the C4 news seem often to just report this on the lazy "one the one hand A, on the other hand not-A" way without bothering to deal with the question; "so which report is *factually* correct?" The result is many other people - including many in the Jewish community - who may decide the LP and/or JC are strongly AS.

Witness, for example, the C4 news a day or two ago where they had two 'Labour' people on who flatly contradicted each other about the wording of the 'definitions and examples' of AS being argued over. It should have been the *job* of Krishnan G. who was mediating (sic) to have *known* the wording or be able to refer to it and show which one of them was right, and which one was wrong. But he simply left it as an argument - no sense of then reporting the *facts* of the issue. Just 'stir and watch'. Something the BBC 'Today' programs excell it. But to me it is lazy and irresponsible 'journalism'. Akin to the way Lawson used to be trotted out on the BBc as 'balance' whenever they had an expert on to discuss climate change. Lazy and damaging cluelessness on the part of the journalists.

I keep waiting for the facts of the matters to be properly and idependently investigated and *explained*. i.e. for the media to do their jobs as they should. I expect pressure groups, political parties, big business, etc, etc, to promote what suits them. But it should be the job of journalists to find the facts and explain them. Not just promote a stushie because it makes their job more fun. Hence for me the problem here is as in many other areas. That mainstream journalism simply isn't finding and explaining the real facts clearly. This is a serious problem for us all in far more areas than just this one!
 
Jim

This debacle is partly the fault of the Labour party and partly about bad reporting. Dealing with bad reporting is something that is part and parcel of any party leaders job. This fiasco has been going on under Corbyns watch for yonks and so far he has done nothing about it, absolutely sod all.

I do not think Corbyn is AS but he has shown himself to be extremely ineffective in dealing with an issue that any other competent leader would have handled much better.

The episode, this week, of him getting into his taxi when leaving his home and saying "good day, nice to see you, goodbye" to the press was sheer PR incompetence. It made him look as if he did not give a damn. With that sort of attitude, things are going to get a lot worse.

Mick
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Personally, I have no sympathy for any group which tries to put pressure on the political system by deliberately misrepresenting the situation. It brought us to Brexit, it has got hugely damaging governments elected, and it is not in the wider interests of this community. We're not singling out the Jewish lobby, on the Brexit thread and elsewhere many lobbies are criticised, but this thread is about antisemitism, so we're discussing the Jewish lobby here, and criticising it where criticism appears to be due.

You appear to be implying that this discussion has taken an antisemitic turn. It hasn't; what you're doing is playing the antisemitic card to stifle legitimate debate. This is the problem. This is often the problem, and until the Israeli lobby stops doing it, we need to call it out whenever we see it.
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Again, it is not me who started this thread and I am not the one behind the articles telling about Corbyn and the Labor.
I see that you don't like lobbiying in general.

Arye
 
Mick P said:
Jim

This debacle is partly the fault of the Labour party and partly about bad reporting. Dealing with bad reporting is something that is part and parcel of any party leaders job. This fiasco has been going on under Corbyns watch for yonks and so far he has done nothing about it, absolutely sod all.
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Have you read that Guardian piece by Corbyn. If you do, you may see that, actually, he's done plenty. It seems that much of it is either behind the scenes or, perhaps more likely, largely unreported in the media.
 
ariegur said:
Again, it is not me who started this thread and I am not the one behind the articles telling about Corbyn and the Labor.
I see that you don't like lobbiying in general.

Arye
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That's not an answer Ayre, its dissembling. You've (subtly) played the antisemitic card to stifle the debate, which is what is happening with Corbyn and Labour, only more blatantly.
 
Mick, you may be unaware , Corbyn has made it perfectly clear he will not do doorstep interviews. I understand this is out of respect for his neighbours.
For Corbyn to deal with false accusations his rebuttals must be broadcast, the MSM do not want to do this for the same reason they treat Yucky-Racist as a victim and Farage as worthy of regular appearances in print, on radio and TV. Short of buying a few papers and the odd TV station I suspect this will continue. Morning Star anyone?
 
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