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Jays audio CD Transport Opinion

Interesting, but not surprising, that the Jay's Audio unit is using the Philips CDM4, the most readily available swingarm. You could get a Rotel 965BX (a nice CDM4 player) and reclock it for much of the same performance, for a 'ghetto' version. Displays on these 90s units still work too ;). Most importantly, these swingarm transports play everything including CD-RWs, and can handle pretty knackered CDs.
 
notevenclose said:
If you're buying new and can get past the somewhat cartoonish display graphics, the wee top-loading Pro-Ject CD RS is my favourite at around a grand. It can be improved further by adding the external PSU at some point.
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Interesting thanks, one I had not considered. I’ve got a 145mm H gap to play with where the Denon currently sits. Do you think I would have enough headroom to load cd’s?

This is the reason I hadn’t considered top loaders.
 
daytona600 said:
StreamUnlimited CD mechanism CD–Pro 8 and servo system CD-84
Latest spec CDpro drive & used on lots of highend players like this 30,000euro Gryphon or real world pricing from £2200 from project
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/highend2019/highend2019_gryphon.htm
https://www.eisa.eu/awards/pro-ject-cd-box-rs2-t-pre-box-rs2-digital/
https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/cd-box-rs2-t/

https://www.hifinews.com/content/pro-ject-cd-box-rs2-t-pre-box-rs2-digital-cd-playerdac
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Ha, love the look of the Gryphon but sadly it wouldn’t fit in my 145mm gap not to mention €29,000 over budget! :p

I am liking the Pro-ject gear although I already have the ESS9038pro in my dac so just want a transport. I’ve got faith in the tech too as my amp and cables are Austrian.
 
The markup on CEC is what puts me off. £1K in Japan = £2.5K here. Seems a bit excessive.
 
No (110), but I’ve certainly considered my daughter who visits Japan buying one and me buying a step up transformer.
 
The CEC transports have had a great reputation over many years and many very pleased owners.
I can across a review this afternoon where a CEC TL51 and Jays audio owner described both units.
The CEC TL51 and Jays audio units are both analogue sounding units but the Jays audio had better detail and transients and was his preferred choice.

The primare transports are a great price and very well built but compared to the competition I believe they fall short, I would be more inclined to go for a CD 31 OR CD32 and have a dac and digital out than the cd15 / 35.

The project box cd rs2 does interest me but sales and reviews are few and far between, the cost is nearly double the previous model with no comparisons available.

Another left field option is the Denafrips Avatar cd transport much cheaper that the JAY'S, it uses the same mechanism and has every output you could ever need another very interesting option.
 
greygoose said:
reviews are few and far between, the cost is nearly double the previous model with no comparisons available.

Another left field option is the Denafrips Avatar cd transport much cheaper that the JAY'S, it uses the same mechanism and has every output you could ever need another very interesting option.
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My understanding – although I may well be wrong – is that the RS2 is an addition to the range, not a replacement for the RS. It does look interesting, but is veering close to CEC prices.

Re Denafrips and Jays, I have no hands-on experience, but am aware of the positive reports. Personally – and obviously it is a matter for personal preferences – their Chinese origin would make them them non-starters for me (also true of Primare I think). I'm not much of a fan of China PLC generally, more specifically there has been some negative comment (if one chooses to interpret it that way) re Denafrips on 6Moons lately, despite Srajan being an enthusiastic supporter originally. NB. This has more to do with perceptions of business conduct rather than the quality of the equipment itself.
 
Alex S said:
The markup on CEC is what puts me off. £1K in Japan = £2.5K here. Seems a bit excessive.
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I can remember thinking it would be cheaper to buy one from Japan, pay the import duty and get a step down transformer, save yourself £900.
Going back a few years I purchased a Project RS Box cdt after demo'ing against a CEC transport. The CEC was the better transport but since cd was a 2nd source and the saving was approx £1400 I plumped for the Project. I have since purchased a 2nd hand Project LPS which gave a worthwhile improvement in sq.
 
notevenclose said:
Personally – and obviously it is a matter for personal preferences – their Chinese origin would make them them non-starters for me (also true of Primare I think). I'm not much of a fan of China PLC generally, more specifically there has been some negative comment (if one chooses to interpret it that way) re Denafrips on 6Moons lately, despite Srajan being an enthusiastic supporter originally. NB. This has more to do with perceptions of business conduct rather than the quality of the equipment itself.
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I agree. We must break this reliance on China and the last 12 months has shown precisely why.
 
G T Audio said:
I agree. We must break this reliance on China and the last 12 months has shown precisely why.
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People in the 1960’s (Adults at the time, I was'nt one although thought I was) said this about Japan, then the cars started arriving! Wholly different political perspective though, I agree.
 
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Salamander said:
I can remember thinking it would be cheaper to buy one from Japan, pay the import duty and get a step down transformer, save yourself £900.
Going back a few years I purchased a Project RS Box cdt after demo'ing against a CEC transport. The CEC was the better transport but since cd was a 2nd source and the saving was approx £1400 I plumped for the Project. I have since purchased a 2nd hand Project LPS which gave a worthwhile improvement in sq.
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A whole new world opening up for me, I've never been reliant on a CD Transport before but now I suddenly get it!

Am I being naive in thinking the CEC TL51XR CD Player could be similar or same as CEC TL5?

What are the variants?

Where does the Classe CDT-1 transport fit in to all of this, there's one on ebay, over budget but how does it compare to the CEC's, Jay's, Denafripps (quite appealing somehow), Pro-Ject (liking the concept) etc etc. I'm veering right off my 145mm H gap front load consideration but am fascinated by the subject of 'Transports'.

Apologies for any thread jacking but Jay's OP still seems very much under discussion.
 
effinity said:
Am I being naive in thinking the CEC TL51XR CD Player could be similar or same as CEC TL5?
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Same drive principle, but refined design in the newer models. Having owned both, to my ears the new generation is demonstrably superior to the old (by no means a given from any manufacturer).

However, disregarding my authoritative sample of, er one, I think every review I've read suggests the same thing, that the most recent models, ie. The TL5 and TL2 outperform older designs from further up the range, some of which are still available. (CEC are relatively unusual for a Japanese manufacturer in that they typically release individual new models only sporadically rather then a whole new range in one fell swoop).

That said, there are of course more of the TL51 models around. The integrated player version is more common than the transport, but has exactly the same drive and makes a very fine transport.

FWIW, I'd suggest £750 is probably about right for a 51XR in very good nick. When I bought mine, 2006 IIRC, the transport version was £1300 new, the player £1750.

Best place to get info on the current range is the International site of their German distribution/service 'hub' who supply all CEC product in Europe.

http://www.cec-international.com/

Plenty of reviews on there as well.

Sorry, don't know anything about Classe transports – other than in general terms Classe has been recently revived after going tits-up a while back, so if it's an older model you refer to, the new company may not have access to parts.
 
No apologies, over the last 6 months I have accumulated the following list re transports and their prices.
Personally I would buy new, then at least you are getting warranty / new transport with peace of mind.
Second hand units like the classe (Classe went under/ revived as a company / laser and mechanisms will require some research to see if still available, if a board goes can it be replaced?? risk / reward calculation required)
Some can be viewed as disposable, some manufacturers/ suppliers may stop manufacturing critical components at any time!!

I compiled a list of recommended transports from a recent thread, might give you food for thought.

Under 1k
Cambridge CXC £250-300
Tascam cd 500b £500 SLOT
Audiolab 6000cdt 400 SLOT
Project box CD £900

Between 1k and 2k
Denafrips Avatar 1.1k
Exposure XM CD Transport £1400
Heed audio oblisk DT £1400
Primare 15 Slot 1.1K
Bel Canto transports CD2/CD3 £1500
Gato CDD1 2K
Project Box CD rs2 £2000
Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 £1895
Sim Audio Moon Neo 2k


PS AUDIO Direct Stream Memory Player £5999
My initial preference was for a Chord Blu at 3k but that is a stretch too far.

My Chord DAC requires a BNC digital input which limits my options greatly, optical is there but not my preferred connection, another interesting development regarding modern DAC'S is the provision of i2s inputs which may or may not lead to improvements but is a useful option, pity there is 3 different i2S protocols just to complicate things further
  • I²S HDMI LVDS Standard
  • I²S RJ45 LVDS Standard
  • I²S RJ45 LVCMOS Standard

Hope this helps
 
notevenclose said:
Same drive principle, but refined design in the newer models. Having owned both, to my ears the new generation is demonstrably superior to the old (by no means a given from any manufacturer).

However, disregarding my authoritative sample of, er one, I think every review I've read suggests the same thing, that the most recent models, ie. The TL5 and TL2 outperform older designs from further up the range, some of which are still available. (CEC are relatively unusual for a Japanese manufacturer in that they typically release individual new models only sporadically rather then a whole new range in one fell swoop).

That said, there are of course more of the TL51 models around. The integrated player version is more common than the transport, but has exactly the same drive and makes a very fine transport.

FWIW, I'd suggest £750 is probably about right for a 51XR in very good nick. When I bought mine, 2006 IIRC, the transport version was £1300 new, the player £1750.

Best place to get info on the current range is the International site of their German distribution/service 'hub' who supply all CEC product in Europe.

http://www.cec-international.com/

Plenty of reviews on there as well.

Sorry, don't know anything about Classe transports – other than in general terms Classe has been recently revived after going tits-up a while back, so if it's an older model you refer to, the new company may not have access to parts.
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Thanks for all that, helps me to put the TL5 and TL51 into perspective. Don’t seem to be any used 240v TL5 around at the moment, 1 TL51XR and a 51XZ present on eBay, not sure what the distinction is there. I am coming around to the idea of a top loader, would have to reorganise shelf order to make fit. I must try and keep to budget discipline if poss.
 
greygoose said:
No apologies, over the last 6 months I have accumulated the following list re transports and their prices.
Personally I would buy new, then at least you are getting warranty / new transport with peace of mind.
Second hand units like the classe (Classe went under/ revived as a company / laser and mechanisms will require some research to see if still available, if a board goes can it be replaced?? risk / reward calculation required)
Some can be viewed as disposable, some manufacturers/ suppliers may stop manufacturing critical components at any time!!

I compiled a list of recommended transports from a recent thread, might give you food for thought.

Under 1k
Cambridge CXC £250-300
Tascam cd 500b £500 SLOT
Audiolab 6000cdt 400 SLOT
Project box CD £900

Between 1k and 2k
Denafrips Avatar 1.1k
Exposure XM CD Transport £1400
Heed audio oblisk DT £1400
Primare 15 Slot 1.1K
Bel Canto transports CD2/CD3 £1500
Gato CDD1 2K
Project Box CD rs2 £2000
Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 £1895
Sim Audio Moon Neo 2k


PS AUDIO Direct Stream Memory Player £5999
My initial preference was for a Chord Blu at 3k but that is a stretch too far.

My Chord DAC requires a BNC digital input which limits my options greatly, optical is there but not my preferred connection, another interesting development regarding modern DAC'S is the provision of i2s inputs which may or may not lead to improvements but is a useful option, pity there is 3 different i2S protocols just to complicate things further
  • I²S HDMI LVDS Standard
  • I²S RJ45 LVDS Standard
  • I²S RJ45 LVCMOS Standard

Hope this helps
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Superb list thanks! Take your point about buying new, I’ve done that with my Matrix Element X, helped by a significant part ex though. I don’t have the same resource for a transport without going into hock, I’m trying to be good until post covid climate eases a bit and provides more work, pension alone finds Hifi purchases a bit amoral ;)

I’ve decided that with effort in reorganising rack a top loader could work.

Budget wise new then I’m favouring Pro-ject CD Box RS Transport or Denafrips Avatar at a stretch.
Otherwise used it would be CEC, doubt if Jay’s visible at all used.

Whilst considering used all sorts has crept in like the cec 51xr or xz, MBL 1431, Audionet Art V2, Primare DD15 transport (ex dem) all eBay offerings of course.
 
greygoose said:
No apologies, over the last 6 months I have accumulated the following list re transports and their prices.
Personally I would buy new, then at least you are getting warranty / new transport with peace of mind.
Second hand units like the classe (Classe went under/ revived as a company / laser and mechanisms will require some research to see if still available, if a board goes can it be replaced?? risk / reward calculation required)
Some can be viewed as disposable, some manufacturers/ suppliers may stop manufacturing critical components at any time!!

I compiled a list of recommended transports from a recent thread, might give you food for thought.

Under 1k
Cambridge CXC £250-300
Tascam cd 500b £500 SLOT
Audiolab 6000cdt 400 SLOT
Project box CD £900

Between 1k and 2k
Denafrips Avatar 1.1k
Exposure XM CD Transport £1400
Heed audio oblisk DT £1400
Primare 15 Slot 1.1K
Bel Canto transports CD2/CD3 £1500
Gato CDD1 2K
Project Box CD rs2 £2000
Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 £1895
Sim Audio Moon Neo 2k


PS AUDIO Direct Stream Memory Player £5999
My initial preference was for a Chord Blu at 3k but that is a stretch too far.

My Chord DAC requires a BNC digital input which limits my options greatly, optical is there but not my preferred connection, another interesting development regarding modern DAC'S is the provision of i2s inputs which may or may not lead to improvements but is a useful option, pity there is 3 different i2S protocols just to complicate things further
  • I²S HDMI LVDS Standard
  • I²S RJ45 LVDS Standard
  • I²S RJ45 LVCMOS Standard

Hope this helps
Click to expand...

I bought my Jay's transport for that price but they have gone up to around £2,200 if you buy them from Willow Tree Audio, the UK distributor.
 
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