Jays audio CD Transport Opinion

[notevenclose]

Don’t seem to be any used 240v TL5 around at the moment, 1 TL51XR and a 51XZ present on eBay, not sure what the distinction is there.

F*** knows. ;-)

As with many Japanese manufacturers, CEC's product naming is pretty impenetrable. They do tend to recycle the same product numbers with minor variation. Products are typically in the range for at least 10 years, so I suppose some minor tweaking along the way is always likely.

The TL51X is the transport, the 51XR is the integrated player with DAC. Both use the same transport mechanism. There was an older, essentially similar model, before my time really, the TL5100 series. I'm not sure where the 'Z' models fit in, again it's a suffix they've recycled from time to time.

I suspect the model changes often reflect changes to the DAC chip employed, DACs are not their area of expertise and are typically 'bought-in' or at least delivered via hired guns. When I had my DX71 II for instance, that was designed by Carlos Candeias, who went on to form BMC. Some of his ideas were deployed throughout the range, normally identified by the ever popular TLA (three letter acronym) eg. 'LEF,' etc.

Seems they parted on good terms, BMC use a transport drive which may look a little familiar, along with the 'SuperLink' reclocking option. http://bmc-audio.com/index.php/bdcd2-playertransport.html

The newer CEC DACs use either ESS chips or technology licensed from Thrax Audio. None of this is relevant if you're just buying a transport of course.

The nomenclature has become a little clearer in recent times, TL prefix now designates only a transport, CD is an integrated player, and DA denotes a DAC.

Current models to focus on I'd suggest are the CD5, TL5 and TL2 (the latter a lot more expensive). These are the first to employ a new generation drive mechanism and laser assembly essentially produced in-house. CEC's expertise has always been in mechanical engineering, they did start off as an OEM turntable manufacturer.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/highend2017/highend2017_cec.htm

 

[greygoose]

Budget wise new then I’m favouring Pro-ject CD Box RS Transport or Denafrips Avatar at a stretch.
Otherwise used it would be CEC, doubt if Jay’s visible at all used.

The above transports I think are the ones to go for as well, I could stretch the budget as you only live once, It's only money.....

I am waiting for a 6moons review on the Denafrips avatar to be completed to see how it compares to the Jays, regarding Jays visable used you might be in luck and here is why.

Many owners have bought the Jays Transport 2.2k and Denafrips Terminator DAC 3.5 (5.2K Total).
An external clock is available Gaia for 2k to sit in between (7.2k)

A new Terminator plus has now been released with improved power / boards and clock.
The Terminator plus 5k is now better served according to users by the cheaper Denafrips avatar which has the i2s as they can now clock directly without the need of the Gaia (for cd only)
This revised combination has a few online reviews and many are upgrading to the new DAC and cheaper Transport (1.5k +5k) and hence a saving while upgrading.
The cheaper Avatar has the I2S output to deliver this, the dearer Jays does not, this may result in preloved units becoming available in the near future.

 

[effinity]

Budget wise new then I’m favouring Pro-ject CD Box RS Transport or Denafrips Avatar at a stretch.
Otherwise used it would be CEC, doubt if Jay’s visible at all used.

The above transports I think are the ones to go for as well, I could stretch the budget as you only live once, It's only money.....

I am waiting for a 6moons review on the Denafrips avatar to be completed to see how it compares to the Jays, regarding Jays visable used you might be in luck and here is why.

Many owners have bought the Jays Transport 2.2k and Denafrips Terminator DAC 3.5 (5.2K Total).
An external clock is available Gaia for 2k to sit in between (7.2k)

A new Terminator plus has now been released with improved power / boards and clock.
The Terminator plus 5k is now better served according to users by the cheaper Denafrips avatar which has the i2s as they can now clock directly without the need of the Gaia (for cd only)
This revised combination has a few online reviews and many are upgrading to the new DAC and cheaper Transport (1.5k +5k) and hence a saving while upgrading.
The cheaper Avatar has the I2S output to deliver this, the dearer Jays does not, this may result in preloved units becoming available in the near future.

Hmmm, interesting, the 6moons review might cause a bit of a stir then for those that care

Hopefully it’s out soon!

 

[effinity]

F*** knows. ;-)

As with many Japanese manufacturers, CEC's product naming is pretty impenetrable. They do tend to recycle the same product numbers with minor variation. Products are typically in the range for at least 10 years, so I suppose some minor tweaking along the way is always likely.

The TL51X is the transport, the 51XR is the integrated player with DAC. Both use the same transport mechanism. There was an older, essentially similar model, before my time really, the TL5100 series. I'm not sure where the 'Z' models fit in, again it's a suffix they've recycled from time to time.

I suspect the model changes often reflect changes to the DAC chip employed, DACs are not their area of expertise and are typically 'bought-in' or at least delivered via hired guns. When I had my DX71 II for instance, that was designed by Carlos Candeias, who went on to form BMC. Some of his ideas were deployed throughout the range, normally identified by the ever popular TLA (three letter acronym) eg. 'LEF,' etc.

Seems they parted on good terms, BMC use a transport drive which may look a little familiar, along with the 'SuperLink' reclocking option. http://bmc-audio.com/index.php/bdcd2-playertransport.html

The newer CEC DACs use either ESS chips or technology licensed from Thrax Audio. None of this is relevant if you're just buying a transport of course.

The nomenclature has become a little clearer in recent times, TL prefix now designates only a transport, CD is an integrated player, and DA denotes a DAC.

Current models to focus on I'd suggest are the CD5, TL5 and TL2 (the latter a lot more expensive). These are the first to employ a new generation drive mechanism and laser assembly essentially produced in-house. CEC's expertise has always been in mechanical engineering, they did start off as an OEM turntable manufacturer.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/highend2017/highend2017_cec.htm

Feck knows! Indeed, it seems from enquiries some of these TL51’s can be up to 20 yrs old. There was 51XR on eBay (just relisted) with a start of £625 but I got no response at all from the seller when I asked about age, 1st owner etc. Kind of surprising considering their 100% feedback, maybe had got fed up of too many questions.

Thanks for the overview leading into the later models and the links also, cheers!

 

[effinity]

just came across this Denafrips Avatar world premiere vid, recommended skip to 6 mins when the unit finally emerges, insides look amazing.

 

[Alex S]

Do people have a view as to why most of these expensive transports have RCA coax instead of BNC, and whether it matters ?

 

[GT]

Same case but with probably slightly different electronics inside...

 

[i.j.russell]

Do people have a view as to why most of these expensive transports have RCA coax instead of BNC, and whether it matters ?

Probably because most DACs don't have BNC connectors.

 

[effinity]

Same case but with probably slightly different electronics inside...

Are you referring to CEC products here Graham?

 

[greygoose]

Do people have a view as to why most of these expensive transports have RCA coax instead of BNC, and whether it matters ?

I thought it was the other way round, cheaper units are RCA coax or toslink optical, higher you go you get more outputs.
BNC often considered sonically superior (75 ohm Standard), chord used dual BNC as their optimum connect for my chord qbd76.

AES/EBU is just a different european connection and now i2s to keep clock data independent of each other.

 

[GT]

Are you referring to CEC products here Graham?

No, the Rays and the Denafrips

 

[greygoose]

I just watched the video, seems very well made again, one think I have noticed is that the reviewer is German so unit in Germany, any model I have seen in reviews does not appear to have a CE mark?
Don't mention Brexit but surely this is a requirement / provided when sold in Europe / UK.

 

[GT]

I just watched the video, seems very well made again, one think I have noticed is that the reviewer is German so unit in Germany, any model I have seen in reviews does not appear to have a CE mark?
Don't mention Brexit but surely this is a requirement / provided when sold in Europe / UK.

Yes, CE is/was and still will be a requirement. We have been told standards will not be dropped. FWIW I think a CD Transport of this sort of quality, much like a well designed turntable should have some sort of suspension separating the drive systems from the chassis. Much like the higher-spec CEC models.

 

[notevenclose]

CECs – players as well as transports generally have RCA, AES/EBU and their proprietary 'SuperLink' connection which slaves the transport to the DAC's clock. Only really applicable with a handful of compatible DACs though.

IME SuperLink is the best option where feasible, on older models they used a multi-pin D-Sub computer cable, which sounded superior to a Kondo digital cable of considerably higher cost.

On more recent models they've switched to implementing SuperLink via 4 BNC connectors.

 

[Alex S]

I thought it was the other way round, cheaper units are RCA coax or toslink optical, higher you go you get more outputs.
BNC often considered sonically superior (75 ohm Standard),

Well the CEC and Denafrips are both RCA if going standard spdif coax. My dac(s) are BNC and one reason I bought the Densen CDP as a transport is that is too.

 

[greygoose]

Well the CEC and Denafrips are both RCA if going standard spdif coax. My dac(s) are BNC and one reason I bought the Densen CDP as a transport is that is too.

You are right only wordclock input on avatar is BNC, No BNC out like on the JAYS audio, back to aes/ebu.

 

[effinity]

If you want a great transport then buy the CEC TL51

Ok an update from me.....for now I've decided to follow the CEC line albeit with an older TL51X Transport c2002 which is under budget although I was gingerly heading towards over budget with wild dreams of everything from BMC BCD1.1, Jay's, CEC TL5, MBL and even more wilder etc.

So, even though these presented more sensibly re budget, eg.....Denafrips Avatar and Pro-ject CD Box RS/w/optional Uni Box PSU upgrade.

I've forsaken them all with the older TL51X but I figured all it has to do is improve on my stand in transport a Denon DCD1520 which is in itself not a bad sounding cd player and, after 2 months of not listening to my old Esoteric X-03SE, I'm really interested to hear what the CEC will sound like in comparison. Much different i'm sure but hopefully in a very good way.

Bottom line is it'll do me for a few months as a new experience while I listen, I don't think i'll lose money on it, gives time for work situation to improve, and if I do want more I can possibly use the TL51X to compare with any of the aforementioned and test the ROI.

Lastly, I can sell the DCD1520 as it still seems to be holding it's own in the used market.

The 51X is coming in from France so i'll have a week or so to wait. I've really appreciated the input on this thread .

 

[greygoose]

Would love to hear your comparison of the CEC AND THE Esotheric!! I hope you bought it off someone who had a good turntable....
Then it probably wasn't used!!!

 

[effinity]

Would love to hear your comparison of the CEC AND THE Esotheric!! I hope you bought it off someone who had a good turntable....
Then it probably wasn't used!!!

Well, I'll try, depends on my ear muscle memory I suppose!

Yes good point re t/t, I omitted to ask that question, damn!

There is another one although a TL51XR cdp, on one of the Scottish isles, I couldn't get a peep out of the seller after 2 msgs sent, total blank.

 

[notevenclose]

...after 2 months of not listening to my old Esoteric X-03SE, I'm really interested to hear what the CEC will sound like in comparison.

Sounds like a plan. Potentially quite a good plan. While I can appreciate the engineering, I confess I've never much taken to anything I've heard with an Esoteric at the front end. In fairness though, I suspect that probably says at least as much about the systems in which I've invariably heard Esoterics deployed – pretty much without fail, these have looked impressively big and shiny and indeed sounded impressively big and shiny, at least for a few minutes before my attention started to wander.

Good luck with the CEC.