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Is Naim snake oil?

To be fair, there was someone over at the Artofsound forum who recently tried some new Naim amps and wasn't expecting to like them - but they were so surprised at how good they sounded, that they bought one of them (Or was It both?). I got the impression they were both Integrated amps.

I'd personally never be Interested In the old olive or chrome bumper gear again but I'd give the new stuff a listen.
 
Darth Vader said:
I am afraid this is rubbish. Graphite is a natural lubricator. If you held a native lump in your hand it would appear silvery, heavy. cold and greasy. DV
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You really should check your facts!!! Graphite does not act as a lubricant in vacuum, for instance. It has to be hydrated (although some gases absorbed into graphite will serve the same purpose), in which case it is as you describe - a very good lubricant - I have used it in very large lumps over the years, particularly as induction heating susceptors. In oil..........

Moly disulphide is indeed a possibility for the black in black oil - I made no claim that it was anything in particular if you would care to actually read my post. As for moly disulphide being added to engine oils - again, incorrect. Moly has been used as an engine oil additive but as compounds such as thio (sulphur) carbamates and similar compounds, NOT as the sulphide, which would settle-out.

DV - please do not accuse me of posting rubbish and then post far more rubbish yourself. Thank you.
 
I had a chance to listen to some decent contemporary Exposure kit over Christmas. Playing McAlmont & Butler's 'Yes' everything sounded detailed with plenty of bass weight. Then I put my Naim CB amps in the chain and just had to laugh at the swagger, bravado, PRaT - call it what you will.

TBH I think modern Naim gear lacks a bit of that old magic too.
 
suzywong said:
Contraversial? Well that’s as maybe, but the real issue is the sheer level of vitriol directed the way of the company and, of course, to anyone “foolish” enough to own any of the “N Word”. And it’s always from the Usual Suspects.

It is, of course, similar to a mains/“digital”/interconnect/speaker cable thread :D.
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So all you need now to prove your point, are a few actual examples of 'vitriol', and quotes where anyone has called anyone else 'foolish'. Round this off with actually naming the 'usual suspects', and then linking same to 'vitriol', etc., and you may have something..

Over to you. :)
 
I believe there is more difference between people (physical and mental), their listening environment and their HiFi equipment.
 
Vinny said:
You really should check your facts!!! Graphite does not act as a lubricant in vacuum, for instance. It has to be hydrated (although some gases absorbed into graphite will serve the same purpose), in which case it is as you describe - a very good lubricant - I have used it in very large lumps over the years, particularly as induction heating susceptors. In oil..........

Moly disulphide is indeed a possibility for the black in black oil - I made no claim that it was anything in particular if you would care to actually read my post. As for moly disulphide being added to engine oils - again, incorrect. Moly has been used as an engine oil additive but as compounds such as thio (sulphur) carbamates and similar compounds, NOT as the sulphide, which would settle-out.

DV - please do not accuse me of posting rubbish and then post far more rubbish yourself. Thank you.
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I am not going into an argument but rather putting to the forum actual facts.

"Graphite and molybdenum disulphide (MoS2) are the predominant materials used as solid lubricant. In the form of dry powder these materials are effective lubricant additives due to their lamellar structure. The lamellas orient parallel to the surface in the direction of motion."

"Solid lubricants are useful for conditions when conventional lubricants are inadequate."

"A typical application is a sliding or reciprocating motion that requires lubrication to minimise wear as for example in gear and chain lubrication. Liquid lubricants will be squeezed out while solid lubricants don't escape and prevent for fretting corrosion and galling."

"MOLYSLIP 2001E is a colloidal suspension of molybdenum disulphide with complementary additives, in a high quality mineral lubricating oil to supplement oil in engines."

Anyone on pfm can look this info up if interested and want further info.

Cheers,

DV
 
Maxbertola said:
Anyway, S-Man, you gave me just the hint I was needing.
Bye.
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Max, it was not my intention to provoke you.
If you come here looking for people that always agree with you, you are going to cause yourself a lot of stress.
But since you've already gone, I hope you are now very relaxed.

Maxbertola said:
True perhaps, but who does? I, at least, try not to waste my time uselessly commenting a post with which I have nothing to do.
M.
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Sorry, I thought is was a public forum and any member was allowed to comment (within the rules of the AUP) on any post.
 
Furrowedbrow said:
Been thinking of upgrading from my trusty Quad 909, so have started looking at Naim amps. I must say I find some of their recommendations and ethos a bit suspect, such as:

1) Needing to use their own speaker cables for impedance matching: Surely the amplifiers are designed to handle complex impedances of many different speakers, so why is the low impedance cable so key!? Am I missing something here?

2) Spending thousands on a power amp and then having upgrade PSU’s which look just like very simple regulated supplies. Surely an amp costing a few thousand should already come with a decent PSU, if it really has a big impact on sound quality? The NAPSC I looked at contained a very basic ‘hobby electronics’ PSU using LM317 regs. Simple stuff and very inexpensive, so no idea whay this can’t be included in say a NAC202 to start with.

3) This doesn’t apply to just Naim I guess, but for digital sources, no amount of preamp can be better than not having a preamp at all! I’ve been running the Quad directly from a Dac and it sounds fantastic. Is a Naim preamp really needed to get the best from their power amps?

Happy to hear your thoughts.
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Maybe take the Naim tour for clarity.....or maybe purchase some second hand units & decide for yourself, compare to what you currently own, you can regain any funds by selling them on, it's how I decide on any piece of hifi equipment, whatever the company.

You can then judge for yourself if this company make shite, over priced snake oil.

However the stuff is designed or put together, at the end of the day if it makes you happy, who gives a toss.

​
 
Did somebody say they come here for the pointless anecdotes?

Here's mine on the lubrication subject...

A few years ago I went to the local specialist bearing shop to buy a couple of sealed cartridge bearings for the bottom bracket of my MTB. The very knowledgeable owner of the shop asked me what they were for. I told him and expained that, before fitting them, I prise off the seals and completely fill them with grease (Silkolene Pro RG2... for the lubricant anoraks amongst us) to make them last longer.
With a very concerned expression he and told me that that was very dangerous and if I went above about 3000 RPM I would suffer from hydraulic suck!!!
 
Hydraulic Suck???? Nice...so of a quiet sunday afternoon, are you still found in the garage for a brief moment of same?
 
I keep trying , but about 120 RPM is my limit so the chances of achieving this are low, and getting lower as I get older :(
 
Nowt left but the vacuum cleaner then (or Doris Whip, from 2, the Oaks...have heard she does a similar service for £40 a pop) :)
Apparently.
 
Pah! I spit on your graphite and molybdenum disulphide; call yourself a lubricant? Shite, overpriced snake oil, now that's a lubricant!
 
Mullardman said:
So all you need now to prove your point, are a few actual examples of 'vitriol', and quotes where anyone has called anyone else 'foolish'. Round this off with actually naming the 'usual suspects', and then linking same to 'vitriol', etc., and you may have something..

Over to you. :)
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I wouldn't go as far as to say the comments are vitriolic, but there does seem to be quite a bit of negativity towards anyone who is happy with their Naim boxes, most of it is delivered by drip feed over a paragraph or two, but we have had through the thread the following.
-sell it on to some other mug.
-a fool and his money
-if folk are daft enough, insecure enough, and can afford it so what.
-a wardrobe full of the emperors new clothes.
All of which are the HiFi equivalent of I think you have an ugly wife. You may well think that, but do you need to say or write it.

To be honest most forums go the same way, regardless of the subject, we tend to be ruder than we realise when talking at a distance.
 
Bobbyrab said:
All of which are the HiFi equivalent of I think you have an ugly wife.
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Much more likely 'I doubt you're wife's a goer (know what I mean), she certainly is only an average cook, and for all that, costs you a fortune in accesories every year'.
And, were it to a mate, it might well get said after a pint or two.
 
suzywong said:
Contraversial? Well that’s as maybe, but the real issue is the sheer level of vitriol directed the way of the company and, of course, to anyone “foolish” enough to own any of the “N Word”. And it’s always from the Usual Suspects.

It is, of course, similar to a mains/“digital”/interconnect/speaker cable thread :D.
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No different to the hatred for Apple fanbois, they make good products but because they have a similar brand approach to Naim people will hate them.

What do you think of apple products?
 
S-Man said:
If you come here looking for people that always agree with you, you are going to cause yourself a lot of stress.
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S-, you have no idea of the number of arguments, disagreements, confrontations, quarrels I had here. The last thing I looked for was consent. When it came I was glad, when I was opposed I first, for a long time, dived head on into stupid fusses, then I learned. One more argument, for such a silly reason, is a sad waste of time. I wish you a serene 2018. If you wish to have the last word, be my guest. I don't think I have much anymore to say. Bye.
 
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