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Is it time for all motor vehicles to be fitted with a black box?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by S-Man, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. tiggers

    tiggers pfm Member

    Sorry, but I don't see 5mph below the limit as significantly below, but what I do see is an awful lot of drivers getting impatient with people who are driving on or around the speed limit and they really shouldn't be. These are often the same people that get impatient with cyclists or horse riders and often put them in danger by their actions. I'm the first to admit some limits are just plain wrong IMO (some too high and some too low), but they are what they are and trying to force people to drive faster than they want is not a good mindset to get into especially if they are only a few mph below the limit.
    Woodface likes this.
  2. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    I think it depends what limit you refer to. 5mph below the 70 limit is a lot less disruptive than 5mph below the 30 limit. 25 mph is really pretty slow. Round here, buses do 20, and Uber Priuses often do 25 and it definitely holds people up, to see the tails they collect.
    brumjam and tiggers like this.
  3. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    And it's exactly that sort of behaviour that I would like to see discouraged by black boxes or by other means.

    The other day I was driving down a local road at an indicated 42MPH (40 real MPH) in a 40 limit and a huge Ford Ranger kept surging right up to the back of my car, accompanied by loud "V8" exhaust noises. We had to stop at some lights where he took another direction, his 2nd set of ights were on red, mine on green, but he still had to partially overtake me just to bang on his brakes at the lights (the oversized crate tipped forward to about 20 degrees as he stopped :D).
    Since then I have seen this vehicle several times just driving round and round the local streets, driving aggressively and making as much noise as he can. He has added a "DE" in front of the "RANGER" on the back the thing o_O - says it all.
  4. Paul L

    Paul L coffee lounge for me

    Your last 5 words were unnecessary so let’s just say for terrorism or protection of society whereas for personal crime such as motoring or theft I agree with you and have suffered similarly.
  5. Ian G

    Ian G pfm Member

    I fully agree with you, our roads are narrow and the lanes more so, general pleasure cyclists are more aware and pull over to allow passing. The speed racing ones in their unnatural fibre slick garments with twatty helmets are the worst, riding 2 & 3 abreast so they straddle the middle of the road around bends, they won't get out of the way and expect cars to follow them for miles without a chance to pass. They also think it's sensible to try and pass tractors with implements on the back.
  6. Burrrrrton

    Burrrrrton Member

    Motorcyclists in general often behave carelessly and provoke accidents on the roads.
  7. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    I'm not so sure about the surveillance because governments do have a bad habit of selective prosecution.
    National ID cards are very sensible and way better than the abuse of driving licenses etc as ID, especially when you end up with needing a photo ID to vote, where it becomes a disenfranchisement tool as in the USA.
    My vaccination digital certificate is linked to my identity card number, which is the Primary Key to the database.
    Identity in the UK has always been flaky, my father and grandfather had identical names and lived in the same house, so plenty of official confusion
  8. Puggie

    Puggie pfm Member

    How would a black box help though. You are doing 5mph under the speedlimit, a black box doesn't stop me doing 1mph under the limit, right on your bumper! Doesn't stop me revving my loud engine aggressively, I can try and maintain my responsible 1mph under the speedlight round the roundabout at the end of the road with tyres squealing.

    You cannot IMHO effectively use technology to police behaviour. Speeding isn't the problem from what you have described, aggressive driving is, and that is a much more complex issue to resolve.
    RJohan and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  9. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    Good question!

    I pretty sure the dolt would have broken the speed limit if I hadn't been in his way. I suspect that if he had a mandatory black box he would not have bought a vehicle so unsuited to modern roads and spend his time like a 17 year old on Scarborough sea front.
    Certainly many of the Clarkson wannabees round here are breaking the speed limits in no uncertain terms.

    I don't understand why they don't book a track day.
    I suspect they would enjoy it much more than shallow one-upmanship.

    ...or maybe I do understand these misguided attention seeking efforts, in light of the social media driven world :(
  10. wylton

    wylton Naim and Mana member

    Corrected as requested.
  11. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    RJohan, tiggers, Thorn and 2 others like this.
  12. Big Tabs

    Big Tabs looking backwards, going forwards

    Black boxes on all motor vehicles?

    No. Silly idea.

    All children having to complete a driving safety course before leaving school. Yes.

    Retesting every 10 years or so? Yes, probably.
    Insurance provider/proof of tax and insurance visible from looking at a vehicle, as well as the current system. Yes. Just like the tax disc was in essence.

    All that said, I bet The Wife and I will have front/rear digital cameras recording in our cars soon.
    There does seems to be more arseholes driving about, and I do a lot less driving than I used to.
    I like to keep a distance from overtly poor drivers, or any driver in front to be honest.
    Escape routes, Road Position and all that jazz.
  13. Puggie

    Puggie pfm Member

    If you had not been in his way and he had broken the speed limit would that have been a problem?

    I doubt a black box would have made that much difference, if we had mandatory black boxes I'd be looking at lower end caterfields or a Morgan 3 wheeler, certainly not something modern, something that is comfortable in a 4 wheel drift under 50mph karman ghia maybe... something fun.

    OK, how about compulsory black boxes, but more realistic speed limits. I drive the A3 most mornings and the 70mph speed limit is oppressive, I see no real reason in this day and age for it to be so low. 95mph during the day and raise it during quiet times, variable speed limits!
  14. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    Not sure why it's acceptable to do 4-wheel drifts on public roads?

    I'm all for sensible speed limits. It pisses me off that the plod sit in a van on one of the safest bits of the A64 and the quietest bits of the M74 nabbing people for doing 76MPH.
    There is a 20MPH limit past a school near us. It really ought to have timed lights and be 20 only at school times. I feel for the poor sods following me in our black-boxed car (nearly as much as I feel for myself with an S-line M-line etc up my backend) on this bit of road.

    The plod should be nabbing people for doing 60++++ in the 30 limit near our house, right on the edge of the city, where they let rip with their antisocial exhaust nonsense. It's also a national cycle route. I suspect the profit: effort ratio is much better on the A64!
    Snufkin likes this.
  15. Funk

    Funk pfm Member

    It's a 'no' from me. There are, as I see it, several reasons why things have developed to the extent they have and the continued vilification of 'evil car-driver cash-cows' needs to stop:

    1) Poor public transport - outside of the major metropolitan areas, public transport is woeful; expensive, unreliable, unpleasant and slow. It just isn't an option so that leaves cars as the only choice.

    2) Many people can no longer afford to live where they work - I live about 10 miles away from my office and have no choice but to commute (despite WFH during lockdowns, we're required to be 'back in' again). I appreciate 'I am the traffic' but weighed against PT it's half the time, a third the cost, reliable, warm and dry when it's cold and wet and I don't have to travel with strangers, especially during a pandemic. I can't even imagine commuting an hour or two each way at the ends of the day getting into and out of London for example.

    3) New housing developments - they're designing these with the express intent of reduced road widths (to 'discourage' on-road parking) and insufficient spaces for a property (to 'discourage' car ownership) Add in people taking work vehicles such as vans home after work and not being allowed to use them on the weekends results in them being parked up all over the place. Without putting in place good public transport links people have little choice but to use a car. These new estates will cause havoc for decades and decades sadly.

    4) Woeful underinvestment in the road network - this, to my mind, is the biggest one. We're utterly reliant on road transportation for the economy but it's barely grown in capacity over the years. The 'eco' argument doesn't wash when zero-emissions vehicles are considered (including things like hydrogen or possibly synthetic fuels); they still need roads to drive on for people to deliver goods to shops, provide services, and to commute to and from work etc.

    We seem to be going backwards - we have cars with incredible safety features, capable of high speeds with ease yet speed limits are being reduced everywhere, capacity is being throttled (eg. several roads near me that once had two perfectly functional lanes have now been reduced to a single lane with a large hatched area - there's no good or logical reason for this, other than to create congestion). How long before we have to have a man with a flag walk in front...? The other wheeze is this; my car is parked all day on a quiet, nearly-empty residential road with a parking permit. The permit is based on....emissions! It's mental; the car's emitting NOTHING when parked, it's an absolute con. Oh, and the permit price has just doubled over last year - they know they can get away with it and people will just have to cough up.

    The problem is that those who make the rules mainly inhabit the Westminster bubble and they appear to have next to no understanding or appreciation of the real world or how it works.

    Question: they're currently lowering limits everywhere with 'emissions' as the excuse (nothing to do with the fact that an artificially low limit will mean more drivers break the law and therefore they can be fined...££££££ *KERCHING*). When we're all in zero-emissions cars, presumably those speed limits will be increased dramatically again? No? Thought not.
    brumjam and Snufkin like this.
  16. CHE

    CHE pfm Member

    In my county the limit in villages is 20mph, and in the local city many roads are also limited to 20mph. I don't see that 'holding people up' as you state is as important as improving road safety, which is the aim in reducing the maximum speed from 30mph. I personally don't have an issue with it - I assume you would ?

  17. Big Tabs

    Big Tabs looking backwards, going forwards

  18. Funk

    Funk pfm Member

    20mph speed limits are a joke; thankfully my town listened when a 20mph limit was considered and overwhelmingly rejected by the residents.
  19. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    I sympathise with all that. However the black box idea is not to tackle these, it's to stop (very) antisocial driving!

    I actually like cars, although I like motorcycles and bicycles more. In my utopian view of transportation we would all share self-driven electric cars for the mundane local stuff, or the choice to use some decent public transport. Those that want it can have access to a nice performance car on track days etc. Maybe some would want a larger "nice" car for holidays etc.
    The autonomous shared electric fleet would mean we need about 5 or 10 times fewer cars. Just imagine the space!!! (you said it yourself, your car is taking up space and doing bugger all 95% of the time).
  20. KrisW

    KrisW pfm Member

    But they would be on the road more, resulting in higher congestion. Bad as things are right now, at least cars don’t drive around empty.
    RJohan and S-Man like this.

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