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Is it time for all motor vehicles to be fitted with a black box?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by S-Man, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. Funk

    Funk pfm Member

    The thing people forget is that a limit isn't a target or a minimum. As you say, it might only be safe to do 20mph past a school at 3pm - that's the speed I would do. The problem with blanket speed limits is that they're in place 24/7 and in the real world, they create frustration as others have mentioned in this thread already.

    Another good example is some NSL roads that you clearly wouldn't do 60mph down; a driver should be capable of and trusted to choose an appropriate speed for the time, the place and the conditions.

    Fixating on the lazy 'speed kills' mantra rather than fixing terrible driving is a huge part of the problem. I'd say that we should start with more draconian punishment for things like phone usage, poor lane discipline, tail-gating and aggressive driving but that would require actual Police on the roads. You can't use a camera to fine someone for hogging the middle lane, whereas speeding of course is easily monetised, which is what all this is about.

    The whole 'saving lives' stuff is bollocks; fewer than 1600 people died on the roads up to June 2019-20, yet 78,000 people died from smoking. But wait....smoking makes the Government a fortune in taxes too. If these things were really about saving lives, cigarettes would be banned tomorrow.

    As I mentioned earlier, how close do we get to speed limits being so low we have a man with a warning flag again? What progress we've made, eh?
  2. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    You think the Govt doesn’t make money from car drivers? Speed is the biggest factor in deaths, people who speed are also generally crap drivers. People do not understand nuance, rules need to be clear.
    Richard Lines likes this.
  3. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    That's the only aspect of the 'Cyclists' which I firmly disagree with, they should NOT be entitled to ride two abreast, I couldn't care less how they dress and I'm very happy to give them a wide birth and always reduce my speed when passing and I'm generally on a motorcycle.
    The roads around where I live are generally single lanes, full of twists and hills, lots of blind summits and corners and yet you get the idiots riding two and three abreast, panting at five miles an hour going up a steep bray, all it takes is one tractor with a load coming the other way and it'll be all over. In general I find them to be less than courteous and lacking in common sense and Road manners.
  4. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    Any easy cure for this issue, all able bodied and minded children should be taught to ride bicycles, then when older the natural progression would be learn to ride a motorcycle, this will teach them about speed, breaking distance and road and weather conditions , after a few years then they should be allowed to move on to cars, vans etc
  5. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    You have just described road conditions on which you shouldn’t overtake anyway. Utter nonsense. Most cyclists also drive cars. Our group will always single out when it is safe for cars to pass. I am sorry that you feel it is ok to put the life of other humans at risk for sake of arriving at a destination a bit quicker.

    if a group of riders single file on a narrow twisty road they actually present a longer ‘obstacle’ assuming proper safe distance is observed. Safe distance is 1.5 metres btw. Have a read of Chris Boardman’s Twitter feed he is very good at this.

    I have yet to find a type of road in which drivers are happy to share with other non-motorised users.

    Remember the ‘Think Bike’ campaign we need a similar level of re-education of drivers & motorcyclists.
  6. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    I think riding a cycle should be part of driving test. I drive a lot slower since I took up cycling, much more aware of relative speed.
  7. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    I'm perfectly entitled to overtake when there's adequate room and visibility for me to see any oncoming traffic.
  8. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    So it seems we are agreed on some things:

    - All of us on PFM are in the elite class of drivers. Easily able to drive safely at >>60MPH in 30 limits
    - Everyone else should be trained to achieve a 4 wheel drift at roundabouts or removed from the roads
    - There should be no restrictions on or surveillance of drivers in the elite class
    - Roads are for cars. Only cars travelling at or above the speed limits.
    Richard Lines, mega lord and RJohan like this.
  9. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    Not me @S-Man we're not all arrogant tossers
  10. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    If you want to have an argument taken seriously, I really wouldn’t frame it like this. It reads like somebody who has, either, lost the plot, or lost the argument and knows it. Sorry, but going hyperbolic when nobody has said anything like this, is only going to raise the temperature. And that’ll be on you if it goes to shit now.
    Funk likes this.
  11. Funk

    Funk pfm Member

    Of course the Gov't make money from car drivers - disproportionately so. Speed is NOT the biggest factor in deaths; the Gov't's own figures show that "excessive speed" & "breaking the speed limit" was a contributory factor in around a third of fatalities (37%) and consider not even the sole cause; someone speeding might also be drunk/tired/distracted etc. Note also that 'excessive speed' ≠ 'speeding'. The largest cause is apparently "failing to look properly".

    My point is that if they really cared about 'saving lives' they would focus on the other two thirds of the causes of fatalities; they don't, because doing that involves putting Police on the roads to stop drink-drivers, people texting/livestreaming/Instagraming, poor car control and lane discipline, all of which cost more money to police than it will generate in fines. Those things are hard to solve and difficult to monetise so they don't bother - they just stick speed cameras up to catch you 5mph over an artificially-reduced limit. Or worse, put them up all over the safest roads - motorways. Not hard to see why; it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Easy money.

    And if you speak against any of this you're immediately labelled a lunatic speed-mad road-demon. "Why won't you think of the children?!"
    brumjam, Ian G and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  12. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    Some of the most dangerous conditions I see on a daily basis are in 50mph average zones through motorway roadworks. Everyone is stuck at exactly the same speed, which obviously includes great swathes of wagons sometimes taking up two lanes as they pass/don't pass for 10 miles at a time, which then has the knock on effect of nobody being able to safely overtake, or pull in/out of a lane, or even get off at the bloody junction!
    brumjam, Sue Pertwee-Tyr and Funk like this.
  13. Funk

    Funk pfm Member

    I'm not an 'elite class of driver' but I do take pride in driving well. Things like forward observation, use of limit points, hazard perception, management of space around my vehicle and having 'escape options' in the event of something unexpected for example. I also try to drive with courtesy and consideration; I'm not perfect at it of course, but I do try.

    Anyone wanting to enhance their driving skill should watch some of my mate 'Reg Local' - a former Police driving instructor who's made a load of great YouTube content aimed at improving real-world driving ability. Even just an hour in the car with him taught me things that changed (and improved) my driving forever.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  14. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    I'm not trying to win any arguments. Just amused at the "I'm above the rules" attitude of some people.

    In reality I suspect PFM members are much more careful drivers than the average.

    Is it bad form to turn a thread I started to shit?
  15. Funk

    Funk pfm Member

    At what point do you call out the Powers That Be for changing the rules based on bullshit though? Why is a road that's been safe at 60 for years now a 50? Why have councils continually put in islands with 'Keep Left' signs where once there were safe overtaking spots? How low do limits have to go before people say, "This is stupid...."?
  16. cutting42

    cutting42 Arrived at B4 Hacker Erg \o/

    I loved a speeding thread back in the day me. Fortunately I gave them up and have been clean for 2 years now. I can read it and not have any urge to post on it.

    No, not even a little bit.



    Just to say.....

    No I don't need it....

    I'm clean goddamit

    Argh, but the sanctimonious claptrap is all here, must write something.

    I. Can. Resist!
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  17. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    Is it time for all checking accounts to be fitted with black boxes to ensure that income and transactions are taxed?
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  18. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    Much of the world has gone high rise to avoid covering half the farmland with suburbia and with a view to being able to use public transport.
  19. RJohan

    RJohan pfm Member

    As a once vivid track day participant: They are scared that it will be found out they aren't very good at it. It is one thing being able to push the throttle to the floor and letting the cars engine do the job, it's another thing being able to place, break and steer the car on the limit around a track.
    Darren L likes this.
  20. RJohan

    RJohan pfm Member

    Steady there! Some men will be offended when you in some way or another joke with their capabilities to drive a car.

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