Is Brexit a Very English Thing?
- Thread starter ks.234
- Start date
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Are you sure that those flying the flag were pro remain?So you *can* be pro-remain and not be embarrassed about an English heritage. Whoddathoughtit?
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
https://www.centreonconstitutionalc...derson_et_al-2016-The_Political_Quarterly.pdf
"In Wales and Scotland, national identity (British or Scottish/Welsh) does not appear to structure attitudes on EU membership consistently. England is very different. The more strongly or exclusively English their sense of national identity, the more likely respondents were to think EU membership a bad thing and to want to leave the EU. The contrast between England and Scotland in these data is striking. If euroscepticism is associated with English identifiers in England, it tends to be British identifiers who hold this attitude in Scotland."
So this would suggest that to answer the OP, in England, it's an 'English' thing. In Scotland and Wales it's a 'British' thing.
As an aside, the paper is from 2016, just before the vote, and identifies the challnege 'Remain' would face.
"In Wales and Scotland, national identity (British or Scottish/Welsh) does not appear to structure attitudes on EU membership consistently. England is very different. The more strongly or exclusively English their sense of national identity, the more likely respondents were to think EU membership a bad thing and to want to leave the EU. The contrast between England and Scotland in these data is striking. If euroscepticism is associated with English identifiers in England, it tends to be British identifiers who hold this attitude in Scotland."
So this would suggest that to answer the OP, in England, it's an 'English' thing. In Scotland and Wales it's a 'British' thing.
As an aside, the paper is from 2016, just before the vote, and identifies the challnege 'Remain' would face.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
But do you identify as being English over being British?
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
No, but statistically there's a 30% chance they're on a leaver's roof and 70% chance they're on a remainer's roof.
I'm a remainer and happy to identify as English, albeit not exclusively so.
No.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
But again, the question is, do you identify being English over being British?
What does national identity mean for 99% of your lived experience? Not much I'd
People born here, with a strong Muslim background, probably identify much more with religious and cultural values than any national outlook.
Pockets of English, maybe.
People born here, with a strong Muslim background, probably identify much more with religious and cultural values than any national outlook.
That doesn't look widespread enough to support the "English" argument.
Pockets of English, maybe.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Only had a skim of that link, so might’ve missed something, but it appears that non Scottish/Welsh were only given British as an alternative not asked if they identified as English over British. Only those in England appear to have been asked if identify as specifically English
tuga
Legal Alien
So you *can* be pro-remain and not be embarrassed about an English heritage. Whoddathoughtit?
It is more likely that the flags belong to the albeit proud minority.
tuga
Legal Alien
In my view, religious people are generally very/more conservative-minded and migrants/descendents of very different religious and cultural background as well as dominant culture indigenous professing a religious minority tend to be very fierce defenders of their roots and identity.
England and probably the UK is like a patchwork quilt compared to what it was a generation and a half ago.
English or indeed Scottish/Welsh notions trade heavily on a nostalgic idea that doesn't really exist any more.
All IMO.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
No. I'm an East Anglian, English, British and European. None of them have any more 'importance' to me than any other and it does not impart any specialness over anyone who sits outside those groups.
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
Identify as in the above context is something I don't generally put at the the top of my daily agenda.
Not something I would actively contemplate until reading a thread like this.
My English identity is forced upon me when visiting other countries, particularly USA ime. Walk into a bar or shop and ask for something and you might typically get the response "oh you are English, do you know the Beatles?"
Identity is hierarchical : county, England, Britain, Europe, the World etc.
A bit like transport networks for example local access, B roads, A roads Motorways, airports and the like.
Not something I would actively contemplate until reading a thread like this.
My English identity is forced upon me when visiting other countries, particularly USA ime. Walk into a bar or shop and ask for something and you might typically get the response "oh you are English, do you know the Beatles?"
Identity is hierarchical : county, England, Britain, Europe, the World etc.
A bit like transport networks for example local access, B roads, A roads Motorways, airports and the like.
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
Do you realise you have just made my point for me?
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Given that, based on the voting in the area, it is more likely that it's on the house of a remainer than a leaver (70% likely vs 30% likely) I don't think you can make that statement with any confidence.
Unless you have a link that shows a relationship between flag flying and Brexit voting.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
The Scotland of Burns and caber tossing in tartan and the Wales of the Eisteddfod are Victorian caricatures, inventions.
When I went to school in the 60s and 70s , Welsh was not even in the syllabus. One reason I left is that not speaking Welsh kills employment opportunities in Wales these days.
When I went to school in the 60s and 70s , Welsh was not even in the syllabus. One reason I left is that not speaking Welsh kills employment opportunities in Wales these days.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Part of this is about putting distance between yourself and the people who didn't vote like you in the referendum. You can do that by labelling them ('gammon', 'remoaners', 'brexsh*tters', 'hard remainers' or the generic pfm favourite, 'c**s') or you can do that by identifying a characteristic that makes them different (and in some cases inferior) to you (older, poorer, less well educated, English, right-wingers, left-wingers, not 'proper' Welsh, not 'proper' Scots, metropolitan elites, 'white van man', Southerners, Northerners, etc etc). It means we don't have to consider that there are people out there just like us except for one thing; a different view on this one issue that remains divisive even now we've actually left.
In the end, all it does is (a) condemns us to an endless cycle of post-mortem and finger pointing that will get in the way of getting on and (b) avoids the need to really worry about the underlying reasons.
In the end, all it does is (a) condemns us to an endless cycle of post-mortem and finger pointing that will get in the way of getting on and (b) avoids the need to really worry about the underlying reasons.
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