Is Brexit a Very English Thing?

[ks.234]

Apologies for another Brexit Thread, but as this question is more about the impact on the United Kingdom it is I feel a slightly different question that could get lost in the general quagmire of Brexiticity.

My question is prompted from something raised in the Week in Westminster on R4 today in which a speaker suggested that the majority of red wall voters identified themselves as English first, rather than British. Other pro Brexit grouped also identified themselves as English as distinct from British

Does this mean that Brexit is dominated by a sense of English identities rather than greater British identities?

Is the ideology of Brexit a logical first step to the break up of the United Kingdom and NI?

Should the 'better alone' principle be applied to the UK and NI?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I do think the notion of English exceptionalism is a particularly English trait, not shared by our Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland compatriots.

 

[Vinny]

I do think the notion of English exceptionalism is a particularly English trait, not shared by our Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland compatriots.

I see where you are coming from, but I would disagree with your choice of "exceptionalism". Very many Welsh, Scots and Irish are arguably more proud of their nationality than the average Englishman. But the English are far more prone to see their nationality as under threat from just about conceivable angle, and in need of protection. At the very simplest level, having spent a short while working in Scotland and worked with Scots elsewhere, there are perhaps very few less racist nations on earth, IMO.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I see where you are coming from, but I would disagree with your choice of "exceptionalism". Very many Welsh, Scots and Irish are arguably more proud of their nationality than the average Englishman.

I wouldn’t say that ‘exceptionalism’ equates to ‘pride in nationality’ though. I think it’s more about an innate belief that the English deserve more than other nations.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

It appeals to ****ers. Everyone else recognises it as the worst idea since a Decca Records manager turned down The Beatles.

 

[ks.234]

I wouldn’t say that ‘exceptionalism’ equates to ‘pride in nationality’ though. I think it’s more about an innate belief that the English deserve more than other nations.

English Supremacy?

 

[Arkless Electronics]

English Supremacy?

Yes there are many of way below average intelligence who actually believe that being English AND white makes them superior to everyone else in the world.

 

[Nick_G]

MEGA!

 

[Vinny]

I think it’s more about an innate belief that the English deserve more than other nations.

A few loonies maybe, probably allied to racism, but otherwise, I would not agree.

 

[TheDecameron]

Apologies for another Brexit Thread, but as this question is more about the impact on the United Kingdom it is I feel a slightly different question that could get lost in the general quagmire of Brexiticity.

My question is prompted from something raised in the Week in Westminster on R4 today in which a speaker suggested that the majority of red wall voters identified themselves as English first, rather than British. Other pro Brexit grouped also identified themselves as English as distinct from British

Does this mean that Brexit is dominated by a sense of English identities rather than greater British identities?

Is the ideology of Brexit a logical first step to the break up of the United Kingdom and NI?

Should the 'better alone' principle be applied to the UK and NI?

At last.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

I tend to refer to myself as English rather than British, but that's from an anti-imperialist and anti-centralist perspective. I see Britain, particularly Great Britain, as a remnant of the English empire. And it would appear that a significant number of Scottish, Welsh and Irish do too.
As for taking back control, etc, I am also averse to centralised Westminster control, which is very regionally biased, mainly towards the south east. I used to live in north Wales, then the northwest, now in the southwest, so this has been very noticeable. I am originally from near London, and of course never noticed it then, just as a racial majority frequently doesn't notice racism, like most privileged groups, I imagine.

 

[Paul L]

I’ve got the impression that it’s okay to be passionate vocally to be Welsh, Irish or Scottish but the English get derided for it as extreme right or racist. It shouldn’t be like that and certainly no feeling of superiority here. Is it different in any country? passionate first about their local area, then their nation then perhaps their continent etc. All a far cry from the Star Trek vision though and we’ve got a long way to go to get to that!

 

[-alan-]

I do think the notion of English exceptionalism is a particularly English trait, not shared by our Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland compatriots.

I'm not sure that's entirely true Sue. We tend to think you lot are quite exceptional for a multitude of other reasons - albeit not many with which you might agree ..

 

[Big Tabs]

I’ve got the impression that it’s okay to be passionate vocally to be Welsh, Irish or Scottish but the English get derided for it as extreme right or racist. It shouldn’t be like that and certainly no feeling of superiority here.

Agreed.

 

[flatpopely]

Interesting concept, I think of myself as British first and a Yorkshireman second. Can't think when I ever thought of myself as English, although I am.

 

[puddlesplasher]

I feel the need to express ones self as English first rather than British since nationality was listed as Irish, Welsh, Scottish or British.

 

[Nick_G]

I've always considered myself European, then British.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

I’ve got the impression that it’s okay to be passionate vocally to be Welsh, Irish or Scottish but the English get derided for it as extreme right or racist. It shouldn’t be like that and certainly no feeling of superiority here. Is it different in any country? passionate first about their local area, then their nation then perhaps their continent etc. All a far cry from the Star Trek vision though and we’ve got a long way to go to get to that!

Take a look at the types who make it their business to be "passionate vocally to be English" and I suggest you will have found the majority of those who wish to be "passionate vocally" about how they hate anyone who isn't... especially those that are both not British and not white!

 

[Thorn]

English football fans boo other countries' national anthems before every game. Is that a peculiarly English thing?

 

[Tony L]

I am a citizen of the planet earth. I don’t have much time or respect for nationalism or arbitrary boundaries beyond that.

Brexit is as English nationalist as it is possible to be. It is a remarkably small, blinkered and petty thing.