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I have seen the Light. Is it too late to change my view on Brexit?

tiggers said:
I think it would be closer than many realise. The just get it done message seems to be being heard sadly. I visit a lot of SME businesses and they are all saying that the uncertainty is their biggest issue so getting out and on with it would be better than another few years dithering. Not my view, but there you go.

Personally I don't think the GE will solve anything, I don't see it as a clear referendum on Brexit as it isn't, there is no simple pro-Brexit/no Brexit option as it's all tied up in party politics. I have said for over a year now we need a second referendum with two clear options that can be implemented straight away. If Johnson's deal is the best he can get then it should be that versus remain. That is what he should be doing, not having a popularity contest. Parliament is an embarrassment to the UK right now and this sham of a GE instead of trying to get the deal through parliament or just doing the sensible thing and having a second referendum is utterly pathetic.

Kudos to Steve T, the OP here, for having the balls to fess up and admit he has changed his stance. My best mate is in exactly the same position, he voted Leave assuming we'd get a sensible deal with the EU, but now would rather remain as ironically all the bickering has made him realise we had a pretty good deal with the EU and would vote as such in a referendum.
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I agree with you, but BJ can’t offer a second referendum, that would be undemocratic and would basically be overturning the original Brexit vote. This way is a ‘legal’ route to a similar outcome. I think BJ is crazy if he thinks he’s going to landslide it. There’s going to be a lot of tactical voting out there.
 
Rug Doc said:
I agree with you, but BJ can’t offer a second referendum, that would be undemocratic and would basically be overturning the original Brexit vote. This way is a ‘legal’ route to a similar outcome. I think BJ is crazy if he thinks he’s going to landslide it. There’s going to be a lot of tactical voting out there.
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That would be true if all you did was re-run the referendum. The public are entitled to judge the terms of exit and compare them with the promises made, like Fox's trade deals, (remember him, the first in a line of disgraced former ministers and expense frauds welcomed back into the fold). A GE would only do that if parties were running on one of the options - as we know, the unmistakable aroma of fudge abounds.

Agree about tactical voting, here's hoping people wise up to that and don't pile too many votes into options with no chance.
 
Rug Doc said:
I agree with you, but BJ can’t offer a second referendum, that would be undemocratic and would basically be overturning the original Brexit vote. This way is a ‘legal’ route to a similar outcome. I think BJ is crazy if he thinks he’s going to landslide it. There’s going to be a lot of tactical voting out there.
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Sorry, but I don't really agree with it being undemocratic although I admit I am likely swayed by my pro-remain stance. My feeling is we have moved so far from 2016 and with parliament basically at stalemate I think that would provide the argument for putting it back to the people. The key would be framing it properly and not in such a way that ambiguities are left on the table, which is of course how we got here. There are currently only three options:

No deal Brexit - parliament won't support that and many people won't either.
BJ's deal Brexit - parliament likely will support it, but not without amendments making it unrecognisable and probably requiring it going back to the EU
Remain

For a referendum we need just two of those on the ballot paper. The obvious selection are the latter two with an agreement by parliament that BJ's deal goes through unamended should the referendum find in favour of it.

I think that would be a far more productive poll than any GE, but that's just me. I also think it would be a lot closer than people think. At least then we'd have an answer and could implement the result as quickly as possible... not sure we'll be able to do that the morning after a GE!
 
Maxflinn for someone who has posted so much rubbish on this forum over the years, most of which is so moronic it beggars belief that you could have worked out for yourself how to switch your computer on I am disappointed that you should think I read the Daily Mail.

That said, I want to stay in the EU and watch that puffed up Popinjay that represents the SNP go through the motions of trying to force the UK Government of whatever political persuasion to give Scotland Independence. Having promised his supporters Independence I want to sit back and watch it all unravel. Watch him explain who will be paying for the Hard Border, which currency they are going to adopt and watch the SNP go to the EU and demand recognition for Independence like the Catalans. Compulsive viewing.

I hope my post doesn't ruffle your hand maiden's feathers.
 
maxflinn said:
The OP is trolling. The only light he sees is from the red mist that blows from his ears as he reads the Daily Mail.
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It did sound like trolling under the influence, given the time of posting and the absence of the usual biliously grandiose “I know many of you, not least my numerous detractors and cryptocommunists, will be surprised to learn that moi has an important announcement to make”....cont p94.

via Imgflip Meme Generator
 
Thorn said:
And the Liberal Democrats once more show themselves to be unprincipled and self-serving.
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They’re in a competitive field. This pre-Christmas election is an interesting experiment and unlike any other in my voting lifetime, the main feeling Im experiencing is morbid curiosity, because no matter the outcome, they’re never going to put Humpty back together again and there are going to be major political casualties ( remember Portillo’s face at the count in ‘97?).
 
I will never change my mind - the EU is a corrupt, undemocratic, protectionist, restrictive, wasteful, moribund and close to bankrupt attempt to create a giant European superstate which has bankrupted Spain, Italy, Ireland, Greece, with France and Germany soon to follow. It is close to collapse. It has its roots in Nazi Germany, and is otherwise know as The Fourth Reich. How any sane, intelligent person could think it was in any kind of way a good or sensible idea baffles me.
 
SteveT said:
I will be upfront with everyone and admit that I was strongly in favour of Brexit but having watched all the shenanigans in the HoC and the interviews on TV I have changed my position.
I fully support the Remainers position now.
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Your decision was made for you by a parliament intent on doing just that. Well done.
 
Rcook said:
I will never change my mind - the EU is a corrupt, undemocratic, protectionist, restrictive, wasteful, moribund and close to bankrupt attempt to create a giant European superstate which has bankrupted Spain, Italy, Ireland, Greece, with France and Germany soon to follow. It is close to collapse. It has its roots in Nazi Germany, and is otherwise know as The Fourth Reich. How any sane, intelligent person could think it was in any kind of way a good or sensible idea baffles me.
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What a load of complete garbage. Brexit's backers have their roots far closer to those you describe.
 
Rcook said:
I will never change my mind - the EU is a corrupt, undemocratic, protectionist, restrictive, wasteful, moribund and close to bankrupt attempt to create a giant European superstate which has bankrupted Spain, Italy, Ireland, Greece, with France and Germany soon to follow. It is close to collapse. It has its roots in Nazi Germany, and is otherwise know as The Fourth Reich. How any sane, intelligent person could think it was in any kind of way a good or sensible idea baffles me.
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Now that is fruity.
 
What leaks out in unguarded moments is something very close to paranoia and conspiracy theory. Fourth Reich, EUSSR, the prison camp guards with their punishment beatings. Where does all that come from? Is it geriatric paraphrenia?
 
Rcook said:
I will never change my mind - the EU is a corrupt, undemocratic, protectionist, restrictive, wasteful, moribund and close to bankrupt attempt to create a giant European superstate which has bankrupted Spain, Italy, Ireland, Greece, with France and Germany soon to follow. It is close to collapse. It has its roots in Nazi Germany, and is otherwise know as The Fourth Reich. How any sane, intelligent person could think it was in any kind of way a good or sensible idea baffles me.
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Cut and paste from DM
 
Rcook said:
I will never change my mind - the EU is a corrupt, undemocratic, protectionist, restrictive, wasteful, moribund and close to bankrupt attempt to create a giant European superstate which has bankrupted Spain, Italy, Ireland, Greece, with France and Germany soon to follow. It is close to collapse. It has its roots in Nazi Germany, and is otherwise know as The Fourth Reich. How any sane, intelligent person could think it was in any kind of way a good or sensible idea baffles me.
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Yeah, but apart from that...?
 
Rcook said:
I will never change my mind - the EU is a corrupt, undemocratic, protectionist, restrictive, wasteful, moribund and close to bankrupt attempt to create a giant European superstate which has bankrupted Spain, Italy, Ireland, Greece, with France and Germany soon to follow. It is close to collapse. It has its roots in Nazi Germany, and is otherwise know as The Fourth Reich. How any sane, intelligent person could think it was in any kind of way a good or sensible idea baffles me.
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Should I call an ambulance?
 
Rcook said:
I will never change my mind - the EU is a corrupt, undemocratic, protectionist, restrictive, wasteful, moribund and close to bankrupt attempt to create a giant European superstate which has bankrupted Spain, Italy, Ireland, Greece, with France and Germany soon to follow. It is close to collapse. It has its roots in Nazi Germany, and is otherwise know as The Fourth Reich. How any sane, intelligent person could think it was in any kind of way a good or sensible idea baffles me.
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"That was Infowars UK correspondent reporting on Brexit, here's Tom with the weather"

"Chemtrails are all over the goddam sky today!"
 
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