I have now heard the Kii Three!

[camverton]

+1. I wish folk would adopt a standard Y-axis of between 40dB and 60dB to make it easier to compare responses. I usually use a 50dB scale from 40dB to 90dB but have been recently using a 40dB scale to make the deviations from flat even more obvious to see.

A 120dB scale is taking the piss, Keith! I'm guessing you've also applied either 1/12 or 1/6 smoothing to those graphs? I'd be interested in seeing the unadulterated waterfall plots...

This does illustrate a problem with using data to make a point. Unless the methodology of getting the data and how it is presented is standardised it is of limited use. I find taking measurements of my system very useful in helping me get the best out of it. I could easily make the same system appear very different dependant on how I made the measurements and how I presented them. So, useful to me, probably not very informative to anyone else, so not worth posting.

 

[Purité Audio]

The data is the same, REW allows you to present it most suitably for your needs.
If I had posted the MDAT file instead of the capture everyone with REW could examine the data.
Keith

 

[AndyU]

I don’t think the purpose of the BXT is low end extension, although I expect that it allows the speakers to maintain their output at higher levels. Rather its purpose is to extend cardioid dispersion to lower frequencies and to reduce the effect of floor bounce.

but Keith has just told us that

The Kiis are pretty much immune to the room.

Now you are telling us that you need to spend another £20k to reduce the effect of floor bounce? Either the Kiis are immune to the room or they aren’t. All rooms have floors. ANd ceilings. And walls behind the listener.

 

[camverton]

Keith.

Do you have a standard distance to listening position? Are your measurements taken with curtains drawn? Do you have a standard height of mic? Do you take measurements from a variety of mic positions around LP? Do you average readings, and if so how do you slope to main LP? What is the orientation of the measurement mic? Is there any ambient noise, steady or intermittent - traffic etc? And that’s just off the top of my head!

All these factors, and more, will alter the data. For your own comparative use that is fine, but to make a point on a forum there are just too many variables to make the data useful. Tricky business this in room measurement malarkey. I sometimes think subjective impressions are more informative. Hope this helps explain some of the reasons that I don’t post my plots, and I haven’t even started on the consistency of anyone interpreting the data!

 

[Purité Audio]

but Keith has just told us that



Now you are telling us that you need to spend another £20k to reduce the effect of floor bounce? Either the Kiis are immune to the room or they aren’t. All rooms have floors. ANd ceilings. And walls behind the listener.

No apology?
Quote,
‘ Mind you, if what Keith used to claim about the speakers was true, that they were flat to 20Hz and absolutely immune to the room, the BXT modules would be a complete waste of money. Hype today, gone tomorrow.‘
Keith

 

[YNWOAN]

The Kii made a very favourable impression on me when I was lucky enough to try it at my home. The addition of the bass module may well clinch the deal and if it sounded any better with my turntable as source..... elegant and sounds bloody good without a host of room treatment - what’s not to like.

——-

I see earlier that there has been some question as to how the Kii compares to the Devialet Phantom - well I’ve heard both a number of times and the answer I said that they don’t compare at all. The Devialet sounds very contrived in comparison and oddly alien to someone accustomed to high end gear, the Kii sounds much more convincing and absolutely commensurate with other high end speaker solutions.

 

[tuga]

The biggest difference was that the singer came far closer, making them step into the room instead of back there somewhere.
This made the soundstage "look" far deeper, not just wider.

Interestingly, that effect also came forward when I tried the PL's with the Dirac Live software, so I suspect it's about phase/time coherence.

Perhaps Dirac flattened a bit of (BBC) dip in the presence region.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

but Keith has just told us that

Now you are telling us that you need to spend another £20k to reduce the effect of floor bounce? Either the Kiis are immune to the room or they aren’t. All rooms have floors. ANd ceilings. And walls behind the listener.

Are you holding me to account for other people’s hyperbole now? That hardly seems fair.

I cannot recall ever telling you to spend £20k on anything. Personally, I would much rather you spent £9k on a pair of Dutch & Dutch 8c and spent the change on a nice source and a truckload of music.

 

[ToTo Man]

The Kii made a very favourable impression on me when I was lucky enough to try it at my home. The addition of the bass module may well clinch the deal and if it sounded any better with my turntable as source..... elegant and sounds bloody good without a host of room treatment - what’s not to like.

It would be interesting to see waterfall plots of the Kii with and without BXTs in various shapes of untreated rooms vs waterfall plots of conventional box speakers in the same rooms. The Kii's cardiod bass response is evidently an advantage in reducing the excitement of room modes, but presumably you still need an appropriate balance of absorption and reflection in the room for the higher frequencies?

 

[gassor]

The Kii made a very favourable impression on me when I was lucky enough to try it at my home. The addition of the bass module may well clinch the deal and if it sounded any better with my turntable as source..... elegant and sounds bloody good without a host of room treatment - what’s not to like.

——-

I see earlier that there has been some question as to how the Kii compares to the Devialet Phantom - well I’ve heard both a number of times and the answer I said that they don’t compare at all. The Devialet sounds very contrived in comparison and oddly alien to someone accustomed to high end gear, the Kii sounds much more convincing and absolutely commensurate with other high end speaker solutions.

Heard the Phantoms in a shop and thought they sounded like cinema stereo, dynamic, but completely uninvolving. I'm getting very interested in the Kii, but can't afford to.

 

[Tony L]

+1. I wish folk would adopt a standard Y-axis of between 40dB and 60dB to make it easier to compare responses. I usually use a 50dB scale from 40dB to 90dB but have been recently using a 40dB scale to make the deviations from flat even more obvious to see.

A 120dB scale is taking the piss, Keith! I'm guessing you've also applied either 1/12 or 1/6 smoothing to those graphs? I'd be interested in seeing the unadulterated waterfall plots...

Flat within +/- 15db after 1/6th smoothing and all manner of digital shenanigans!

 

[camverton]

Andy I just happened to be re-arranging the Kiis and I thought I would make a quick measurement , same channel, but one has BXT enabled.


Keith

I’ll ask again as there is no point in posting plots without stating the smoothing.

Is it straightforward per octave smoothing and if so how much?
Is it psycho-acoustic, variable or ERB smoothing?

Not too much to ask is it?

 

[Whaleblue]

Mark, completely OT, apologies, but how did you paint the bass driver surround? And are they easy to remove and replace without the driver falling out?!

 

[YNWOAN]

I sprayed the bass driver surrounds satin black (I actually did this to all the drive units). I removed them and then masked them off. You do have to be very careful removing the bass driver as the gasket tends to hold them in and then, when they do release, they can fall out awkwardly as both the basket and magnet are heavy. I seem to recall I laid them on their backs, undid all the screws and then used a screw (probably two at once) at an angle to lift the driver enough to get my fingers underneath and lift it out.

 

[Whaleblue]

Thanks Mark. I suspect that mine will stay silver then!

 

[YNWOAN]

The previous owner had painted them black with some matte black paint and a brush. The result was pretty good and I could only tell under close inspection that they hadn’t been sprayed. For me that was too late and, of course, I then had to rub them down and spray them to pander to my inner obsessive .