I've put a few ounces on, Alex.
How has Labour been chasing after "these very same leavers?"
We've been around the houses a dozen times on how much more damaging austerity was and is than a soft Brexit. Drood had the facts and figures, but gave up, because it was exactly like arguing with a hard Brexiter insisting that no deal would be OK: "Oh, they [well-respected mainstream economists] haven't taken this into account!" "Yes they have." "Yeah, but..." etc. You don't want to be talked out of this assumption.
- is a very strong statement of one's political values and priorities, and one for which there is no economic alibi.
How many thousands of pages of strategising and debate, and now you're a shopper waiting for the right ad? I assume people are voting on the basis of their interests, values and priorities. And if they're prepared to put the Tories back in power rather than compromise on Brexit, those interests, values and priorities are crystal clear, aren't they? There's not a lot Labour could do to win over these particular shoppers short of abandoning their own values, and the poor - and let's face it, the fact that they won't is what has people so red in the face to begin with.
That's, as ever, a bit high-handed of you Sean. Firstly, we're not facing the prospect of a soft Brexit. And moreover Brexiting, even of the softest, fluffiest variety, doesn't fix Austerity, so that's a complete non-sequitur. Brexiting makes it more difficult to unpick Austerity. If Austerity hadn't happened, perhaps Brexit wouldn't be so devastating, but Brexit compounds Austerity, it can't fix it.
Brexit may, or may not be the most important issue; but it is surely one of the most urgent. So, priorities...Insisting that Brexit is the most important political issue - to the point that it doesn't matter if the Tories and/or the Brexit Party form the next government, because their position on Brexit is the same
No one appears to want soft boiled egg Brexit any longer. Jeremy is selling something there’s no demand for and his overdraft is going to run out. The Tories won’t back it, Farage won’t, Steve Baker and Co. will burn down Parliament. The only form it remotely exists in is Treeza’s and that’s a Dodo now. It’s now death or glory Brexit- the hard one or call the whole shitshow off. Ask the public what they want.We've been around the houses a dozen times on how much more damaging austerity was and is than a soft Brexit. Drood had the facts and figures, but gave up, because it was exactly like arguing with a hard Brexiter insisting that no deal would be OK: "Oh, they [well-respected mainstream economists] haven't taken this into account!" "Yes they have." "Yeah, but..." etc. You don't want to be talked out of this assumption.
Insisting that Brexit is the most important political issue - to the point that it doesn't matter if the Tories and/or the Brexit Party form the next government, because their position on Brexit is the same
"Prospects" now is it? We could talk about prospects, but bringing up actual scenarios and actual constraints usually invites accusations of 5D chess sophistry - which is just one of the things that makes hard remainers the mirror image of Faragists ("Just leave!" "Just stay!") But let's just say that a soft Brexit with Labour, however unlikely, is still about a billion times more likely than any of the remain parties actually doing what they're promising to do, and stopping Brexit. That is not in their power and it never will be. It's not in any way a likely prospect. So what are you voting for?
Of course it can't fix it. But it won't stop Labour fixing it either - and to claim otherwise is dogma. Soft Brexit simply would not be the devastating event that some people seem to need it to be.
My point is that once you strip away the economic alibi, these other facets are what we're left with - and what you're prioritising over ending austerity and reforming the economy: they're your values. And, as with the Faragists', they're identarian: openness, European identity and so on. That's fine: I mean, openness at least is a positive value. But why not own it? Why not say, These values are so important that I think that 5 more years austerity, and a hard Brexit, are a price worth paying to uphold them?
Yes, practically speaking it's no deal or remain, as far as I can see, and Labour will inevitably come down on the side of remain. (Sorry, 5D chess!) But by then it will be too late for many here, because Jeremy is not pure of heart: he will just be chasing votes, like a typical slimy politician! He doesn't feel European in his soul!
It's good that you're acknowledging that it's not in Labour's gift to stop Brexit, or to deliver a public vote (they've tried). It does make it more obvious what's being asked of them though, doesn't it? A performance.
Labour does have an alternative policy, not that everyone believes brexit is the biggest single issue. In my view, the tory destruction of public services is a bigger issue.
Strategically, that's just bananas: the level of co-ordination it would require to get just the right balance for a hung parliament would be simply impossible. Get it wrong - and only sheer dumb luck would get it right - and inevitably, if this strategy is followed, the balance will tip in favour of no deal Brexiteers. It's the single most reckless thing I've heard from Remain. Have you contacted The Guardian?
Maybe he’ll whip for the Brexit option? It was after all, the will of the people. We are leaving the EU in under five months, so he’ll need to make up his mind or tell his parliamentary party to go back to their constituencies and prepare for oblivion when Johnson faces him in the next general election. A more sensible outcome for Labour would be to get rid of him now.
For who? This kind of talk just shows remainers' hand, and the poverty of it.