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How much difference between streamers when using own dac?

deserter said:
So I gather. I need to get my hands on a later Squeezebox with a USB output to be sure , but the difference is fairly substantial .
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Try loading some flac/alac music files onto a usb stick and connect it to the usb input on the sbt.
If these still sound inferior to spotify streaming on your laptop via the usb input on the Dac then maybe its an implementation issue.
Also disconnect all the other inputs so the sbt is the only device connected to the dac.
Let us know if the sound improves.
 
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Purité Audio said:
Just anecdote without measurements.
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You might want to look at the Audiosciencereview Review and Measurements of SMSL VMV D1 DAC.

Note the "Switching noise" on the unbalanced output at low level. At 8 kHz fundamental it's a dead ringer for the USB packet rate so a likely conclusion is that USB is interfering with one of the DAC's analogue outputs. This is actually in line, in part, with Darko's article. However note two things:
So it looks like it was a design/layout error in the original PCB that made the DAC sensitive to USB input noise. The revised PCB does what it should and the DAC rejects the noise.

Furthermore Darko's interviewee gets it the wrong way round from a system engineering PoV when he says: "… one of the biggest challenges in designing good sounding USB outputs is minimising their electrical noise leakage … ".

From a good system engineering PoV it's mostly about making sure the DAC is immune to USB electrical noise on its inputs because there always will be some.

And the above measurements show this can be done. Yes, you should design the USB output of your streamers to be as quiet as possible. But if I am assembling an audio system it's good engineering in the DAC that matters to me first of all.
 
I remain devoted to my SBT. I have not been able to discern differences between streamers when using my usual DAC and system.
 
Here is a review of the Melco N1Z streamer from HiFi News. As you can see from the measurements panel there were clear, non-trivial differences between its performance with respect to jitter and noise compared to a laptop. Fair enough the DACs were USB hub powered portable devices and chosen for their ability to highlight possible differences between sources, but they are all decent DACs.
 
deserter said:
So I gather. I need to get my hands on a later Squeezebox with a USB output to be sure , but the difference is fairly substantial .
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If the difference is substantial I don’t think it is due to different DAC input performance(USB vs coax/optical). For sure some DACs have issues with inputs that are sounding different, but the difference should not be substantial
 
AndyU said:
Here is a review of the Melco N1Z streamer from HiFi News. As you can see from the measurements panel there were clear, non-trivial differences between its performance with respect to jitter and noise compared to a laptop. Fair enough the DACs were USB hub powered portable devices and chosen for their ability to highlight possible differences between sources, but they are all decent DACs.
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£7700 to improve a really poorly designed dac, that makes sense.

‘so a USB DAC with excellent data recovery/reclocking may not express a significant difference. Similarly, a DAC that incurs significant jitter under
its own bonnet will suffer the same distortion sidebands in the analogue domain regardless of the coherence of the digital data at its input.’

Keith
 
Mentt said:
If the difference is substantial I don’t think it is due to different DAC input performance(USB vs coax/optical). For sure some DACs have issues with inputs that are sounding different, but the difference should not be substantial
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I agree substantial difference makes me believe there are some issues somewhere with the sbt or the dac.
 
IME different digital transports into the same DAC do make a difference.

Not much to be gained in arguing about this in a forum IMO.

Just try out for yourself.
 
I’ll keep trying but I’m not hopeful that spending another few thousand on a transport will add anything that is noticeably better.
 
Del monaco said:
I’ll keep trying but I’m not hopeful that spending another few thousand on a transport will add anything that is noticeably better.
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No need to spend that kind of money to notice a difference IME. Just compare a Chromecast Audio to a Bluesound Node 2 feeding the same DAC.
 
radamel said:
No need to spend that kind of money to notice a difference IME. Just compare a Chromecast Audio to a Bluesound Node 2 feeding the same DAC.
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True though my observations were based on the summary by Archimago regarding so called higher end streamers.
 
radamel said:
People hear things differently, they have different setups, different rooms...

Perhaps you're missing something, perhaps not.

If you can't spot a difference that's definitely good for your bank account.
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That’s the second person who thinks you deaf Del, perhaps a hearing test is in order !
Keith
 
Purité Audio said:
That’s the second person who thinks you deaf Del, perhaps a hearing test is in order !
Keith
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I don't think Del is deaf.

OTOH, as I said before, I don't think you'd spot a difference between electronics in terms of sound quality if it hit in the face.

I have no clue if that's down to the way you hear things or because it's part of your basic salesman pitch.

PS Archiemagoo may not be deaf but probably has some kind of hearing impairment :D (just kidding).
 
Purité Audio said:
Surely if it were my ‘salesman’s pitch’ I would be a huge advocate of expensive streamers?
Keith
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On the contrary, saying that all digital transports sound the same is probably part of your salesman basic pitch of being "in harmony with the truth". Not selling foo or snake oil. But you radicalize your speech saying that all "properly engineered" electronics sound the same. Probably a fanatic pitch aimed at die hard objectivists.
 
radamel said:
I don't think Del is deaf.

OTOH, as I said before, I don't think you'd spot a difference between electronics in terms of sound quality if it hit in the face.

I have no clue if that's down to the way you hear things or because it's part of your basic salesman pitch.
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It’s true. Im not deaf. When I first started with Hi-Fi I was led to believe that I had to continually upgrade to get better performance. I was gifted Naim amplification. I liked it but I didn’t like the the idea that I would have to pay rather a lot of money to get a ‘performance increase.’ I moved the Naim on and spent a lot of time assembling a second hand system that gave me satisfaction to the point that I wouldn’t be persuaded to look at upgrading. This has worked well. It allows me to listen to my music and avoid the nagging feeling that things could be better. I feel the same about CA. This is where the money is and it seems an awful lot of money can be made selling exotic transports to those who believe and sometimes hear night and day differences.People may hear differences but I believe other things are at play here. I want to be sure that the hi fi I buy is doing its job well and provides me with the satisfaction I look for. As you can see from multiple threads and posts you don’t need to pay a kings ransom to have the Hi-Fi experience of your dreams. I do worry that some are being led down the garden path.
 
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