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Housing market

Ponty said:
Don’t get it do you. I’m reacting to govt legislation to prevent someone playing the game. My tenants don’t need a leg up in life, they’re doing very nicely. Eg one chap had his family pile up country and wanted a pad in the SE for 12 months. He was only there 2/3 nights a week, never cooked so hardly any wear and tear. He had it for nearly 3 years in the end. Immaculate when he moved out. Lovely chap, could buy the place out of petty cash.
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You dont get it do you? You’re blaming everyone else for the problems yet refuse to be part of the solution, only the problem…so you’re still a Tory even if you have spat your dummy at how unfair things seem for you.
 
flutteringwow said:
You dont get it do you? You’re blaming everyone else for the problems yet refuse to be part of the solution, only the problem…so you’re still a Tory even if you have spat your dummy at how unfair things seem for you.
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Just adapting to changing market conditions and govt legislation. I like to have constructive dialogue with folks who see things through a different lens but your extreme position makes it fruitless, so I’ll leave you to it.
 
Ponty said:
As the govt continues to swing the pendulum towards tenants, landlords will need to mitigate against the risk of someone playing games. If I were a tenant, I’d also want to know my landlord wasn’t at risk from going bust as much as a landlord wants to know a tenant will pay the rent. There are plenty of very wealthy / cash rich tenants around. I’ve had 6 months in advance several times from professional folk relocating from overseas who don’t yet have a complete UK credit rating for example. I can’t see 12 months being an issue. Others offer rent in advance when there is competition for a property. Many choose to rent for convenience and lack of hassle, particularly if they are based somewhere for a relatively short period, not because they can’t afford to buy. Without exception, tenants I’ve had could easily buy the property they were renting (and some) but choose not to.
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6 months I get, especially in the example(s) you mention above, but 12 months is over the top in my opinion. I have rented previously (out of necessity rather than choice) and would never have parted with 6 months, let alone 12 months rent up-front. I much prefer to keep hold of the money I have, and have it working for me for as long as possible, rather than it be sat in someone else's account.

Most of the wealthy folk I know (and have encountered in my life) rarely like to part with their cash, so I would imagine your customer base would be quite limited.
 
Ponty said:
Just adapting to changing market conditions and govt legislation. I like to have constructive dialogue with folks who see things through a different lens but your extreme position makes it fruitless, so I’ll leave you to it.
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Equality for all doesn't seem extreme to me, and I hazard a guess nor will it to 95% of the members on this forum..it does to you?
 
Gingerbeard said:
6 months I get, especially in the example(s) you mention above, but 12 months is over the top in my opinion. I have rented previously (out of necessity rather than choice) and would never have parted with 6 months, let alone 12 months rent up-front. I much prefer to keep hold of the money I have, and have it working for me for as long as possible, rather than it be sat in someone else's account.
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Yep same here. I rented for about 8 years and at almost no point would I have been in the position to part with 12 months rent up front as I didn't have it, and certainly wouldn't have parted with that much money up front even if I did have it. There's an implication here by some posters that wealthy tenants are the ones to have, and that's just a weird (and somewhat discriminatory) position to take imo. For several years I had practically sod all and yet never defaulted on my rent, I paid all my bills and left my houses in at least as good a state as when I moved in. I can contrast that with at least one person I knew who very much did have the money, and left a trail of destruction wherever he went.
 
calorgas said:
Yep same here. I rented for about 8 years and at almost no point would I have been in the position to part with 12 months rent up front as I didn't have it, and certainly wouldn't have parted with that much money up front even if I did have it. There's an implication here by some posters that wealthy tenants are the ones to have, and that's just a weird (and somewhat discriminatory) position to take imo. For several years I had practically sod all and yet never defaulted on my rent, I paid all my bills and left my houses in at least as good a state as when I moved in. I can contrast that with at least one person I knew who very much did have the money, and left a trail of destruction wherever he went.
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Well, we’re heading into a financial shitstorm. Another rate rise yesterday and more to come (thank the covid response for that). Coupled with a govt who wants to smash small landlords and there are significant risks of the wheels coming off. Rents should fall as people have less in their pocket but such is the shortage of high quality accommodation to rent in the right places that competition is ferocious and enough people can pay more / offer superior terms to secure a property, at the moment… For my product and target audience, I don’t see 12 months being an issue but we’ll see when the time comes.

More reductions this morning. £50K drop on a place I’m watching, not enough. When you see reductions, you just know there has been zero interest whatsoever. Trouble is, things start looking stale very quickly after a reduction or 2.
 
mandryka said:
My advice is to take out rent protection insurance. It's not expensive if your business is healthy, you can claim for it in your tax return in fact. It will prevent you from even considering a T who smells slightly like trouble. In fact I think they'll even take ones with guarantors.

(Tax return . . . Jan 31 soon . . . shit!)
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ah thats good advice thanks
 
Ponty said:
Well, we’re heading into a financial shitstorm. Another rate rise yesterday and more to come (thank the covid response for that). Coupled with a govt who wants to smash small landlords and there are significant risks of the wheels coming off. Rents should fall as people have less in their pocket but such is the shortage of high quality accommodation to rent in the right places that competition is ferocious and enough people can pay more / offer superior terms to secure a property, at the moment… For my product and target audience, I don’t see 12 months being an issue but we’ll see when the time comes.

More reductions this morning. £50K drop on a place I’m watching, not enough. When you see reductions, you just know there has been zero interest whatsoever. Trouble is, things start looking stale very quickly after a reduction or 2.
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funny thing , had 2 viewings on my flat booked in hours of going live yesterday . be interesting how it pans out with offers etc
 
calorgas said:
Yep same here. I rented for about 8 years and at almost no point would I have been in the position to part with 12 months rent up front as I didn't have it, and certainly wouldn't have parted with that much money up front even if I did have it. There's an implication here by some posters that wealthy tenants are the ones to have, and that's just a weird (and somewhat discriminatory) position to take imo. For several years I had practically sod all and yet never defaulted on my rent, I paid all my bills and left my houses in at least as good a state as when I moved in. I can contrast that with at least one person I knew who very much did have the money, and left a trail of destruction wherever he went.
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As a matter of fact, rent arrears are associated with having a lower income. I can find you the stats later if you want.
 
Ponty said:
Well, we’re heading into a financial shitstorm. Another rate rise yesterday and more to come (thank the covid response for that). Coupled with a govt who wants to smash small landlords and there are significant risks of the wheels coming off. Rents should fall as people have less in their pocket but such is the shortage of high quality accommodation to rent in the right places that competition is ferocious and enough people can pay more / offer superior terms to secure a property, at the moment… For my product and target audience, I don’t see 12 months being an issue but we’ll see when the time comes.

More reductions this morning. £50K drop on a place I’m watching, not enough. When you see reductions, you just know there has been zero interest whatsoever. Trouble is, things start looking stale very quickly after a reduction or 2.
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To be fair you're probably operating in a different sector of the market to the kind of housing that I used to rent, which was anything from a room in a shared occupancy house to semi-detached family houses. But as I remember it decent quality accommodation was always in demand, within its area and price bracket. Still though, expecting tenants to put up 12 months in advance to protect the landlord from the effects of a shifting market is a bit one sided imo. I'm glad I'm not renting any more!
 
mandryka said:
As a matter of fact, rent arrears are associated with having a lower income. I can find you the stats later if you want.
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No kidding :)

There's quite a difference though between checking that your tenant has the required income to be able to afford the rent, and asking for 12 months up front.
 
calorgas said:
To be fair you're probably operating in a different sector of the market to the kind of housing that I used to rent, which was anything from a room in a shared occupancy house to semi-detached family houses. But as I remember it decent quality accommodation was always in demand, within its area and price bracket. Still though, expecting tenants to put up 12 months in advance to protect the landlord from the effects of a shifting market is a bit one sided imo. I'm glad I'm not renting any more!
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Renting can be a truly excellent option, but we’re so obsessed with home ownership in the UK (which has suited successive govts very well) that we don’t see others ways. My father rents his house, it’s utterly gorgeous and he has hundreds of acres of private land to enjoy without having to maintain any of it. The rent is relative buttons, probably similar to a 2 bed flat in a crap part of London. Come to think of it I’m sure he pays annually.
 
calorgas said:
No kidding :)

There's quite a difference though between checking that your tenant has the required income to be able to afford the rent, and asking for 12 months up front.
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Ah yes, if they can't afford the rent I won't let them in even if they offer 12 months in advance. You have to think about what happens after the 12 months is up. However I have noticed some owners say that if they can't afford the rent they'll take them IF they have a guarantor who can AND they pay 6 or 12 months in advance. Presumably these people just issue a s21 no fault eviction notice to get them out after 6 or 12 months.

In the past I might have done it for people getting their rent paid by benefits, but not since they put a stop to rent payment direct to the owner. And anyway, benefits don't keep up with market value rents any more.

What is happening in the housing market is as follows, I think: people at the bottom end are effectively being pushed out. No private landlord will rent to them, and there's nowhere else for them to go. In France, it's hard to rent privately without a lot of financial security, but they have a better system of council housing to compensate. Maybe HMOs are possible, I don't know about that world, how you get rid of a bad T in an HMO - I don't think they have ASTs.

I wonder if it's been thought through: weaponise housing to prod people into taking and keeping regular, if low paid and disagreeable, employment and be well behaved citizens, don't get CCJs.
 
mandryka said:
Ah yes, if they can't afford the rent I won't let them in even if they offer 12 months in advance. You have to think about what happens after the 12 months is up. However I have noticed some owners say that if they can't afford the rent they'll take them IF they have a guarantor who can AND they pay 6 or 12 months in advance. Presumably these people just issue a s21 no fault eviction notice to get them out after 6 or 12 months.
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You sound like a character straight out of a Dickens novel.
 
Ponty said:
Renting can be a truly excellent option, but we’re so obsessed with home ownership in the UK (which has suited successive govts very well) that we don’t see others ways. My father rents his house, it’s utterly gorgeous and he has hundreds of acres of private land to enjoy without having to maintain any of it. The rent is relative buttons, probably similar to a 2 bed flat in a crap part of London. Come to think of it I’m sure he pays annually.
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Imagine if he got chucked out and no one wants to take on the risk of an old guy on a pension? Or they ask for 12 months up front and he hasn't got it? or he has to go back to work and there isn't any work in those villages where he has acres of private land and needs to move to a town or a city where there is more work? Sheesh, then there are no properties, so he has to move into a HMO with a bunch of dudes he dosent know from all different ages/walks of life.

Yeah, renting is f******g brilliant. :rolleyes:

Or you are just saying this, because he has got 12 months rent in his bank account, so its all ok and this is why you have this elitist BS attitude to something that is a necessity not a commodity, your 'product' as you say?

You own your home don't you? Damn that obsession, others should be denied the right by Ponty while he acts criminally about who can rent his mansions with expensive plates.
 
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