richardg
Admonishtrator
bye
Hong Kong
- Thread starter robs
- Start date
Richard, apologies for that. Maybe you, I and zygote could meet up in Thailand next time we're all there, I'm sure we'd have a ball. I'm trying to get there at the moment, but AF and KLM aren't doing flights, and guess who my ticket s with ?.. My apartment is basic (read cheap, but the pool is great and the local street food phenomenal) but you're welcome any time.
kensalriser
pfm Member
I'm sure China is wonderful if you're a loyal party member. Not so much if you're Tibetan, a Uighur, LGBT or even just someone who favours a different system of government. In terms of the sheer weight of repressive capability, I wonder if there is a more repellent state in the world.
It is that old conundrum: does the end justify the means ?
Or does improving the lot of the masses justify enforcing stability ?
And on a specific point: is pollution in China worse than India ? I doubt it.
I am not an apologist for the CCP. I just think the 'average Chinese' appreciates stability and economic progress.
In the same way that westerners don't understand Russian support for Putin.
richardg
Admonishtrator
If he stopped rigging elections, we might find out how popular he is.
boneman
pfm Member
I want to believe this. Show me evidence of how happy everyone is. I entertain this is a possibility but
If you don't know any other way of living then yes the average citizen might. We'll never know as they are not given a voice. It's quite clear however that HK residents who had a voice would like to keep it. They have just announced this morning that the police now have the power to search and use surveillance as they like. In addition they have begun purging the libraries of anything they deem subversive to the state. Avole, still think you'd happily live there?
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
It is sometimes said that a better alternative to a democracy would be a benign dictatorship. Speaking from England, and aware also of the USA, that's not an unattractive argument at the moment. The risk has always been that a benign dictatorship morphs into something less benign, over time.
I don't understand enough to know for sure, but some contributors to this thread seem to be suggesting that the Chinese leadership is perhaps closer to a benign dictatorship than many. You can point to the stability, and the general rise in living standards for the vast majority of the population (something we in the UK or USA might like to emulate at the moment). You can point to the oppression, but for the most part, unless you seriously rock the boat, you will be left alone. This sounds, on the face of it, relatively benign. The lack of robust human rights protections is a pretty fundamental problem, though.
It's not black and white, is it?
I don't understand enough to know for sure, but some contributors to this thread seem to be suggesting that the Chinese leadership is perhaps closer to a benign dictatorship than many. You can point to the stability, and the general rise in living standards for the vast majority of the population (something we in the UK or USA might like to emulate at the moment). You can point to the oppression, but for the most part, unless you seriously rock the boat, you will be left alone. This sounds, on the face of it, relatively benign. The lack of robust human rights protections is a pretty fundamental problem, though.
It's not black and white, is it?
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
I did allude to the history of having an emperor earlier but the party at the moment is controlling people on an industrial scale, all it takes is for a bureaucrat to take a dislike to you and you lose wechat which means your social circle disappears, you are denied travel, it’s difficult to buy or sell things it’s really bad. Whenever a population is denied freedom it will tend to stagnate and it’s happened to China in the past.