Hong Kong

[richardg]

Thats precisely why it's gutless. BJ will be offering BJ's for a trade deal with them in a few months....From a national security pov what the hell are we doing allowing China anywhere near our power supplies or Digital infrastructure?

It's hollow because hardly anyone will leave for uk. But it is a decent symbolic gesture. I think symbolic gestures are quite important in politics.

 

[cooky1257]

It's hollow because hardly anyone will leave for uk. But it is a decent symbolic gesture. I think symbolic gestures are quite important in politics.

I'm sure those kids looking at 10 years reprogramming will take great comfort from it.

 

[Wilson]

"BJ will be offering BJ's for a trade deal with them in a few months...."

I think that China is on a road to isolation from the civilized world.

 

[wacko]

"BJ will be offering BJ's for a trade deal with them in a few months...."

I think that China is on a road to isolation from the civilized world.

That will be tricky as China make almost everything the 'civilised' world buys. China also has close to a monopoly on rare earth metals...
HK had a great run but I suspect it is over. The major beneficiary of that will be Singapore.

 

[Wilson]

Valid points, Wacko.

The near monopoly on rare earth materials may tun into a "peak oil" fallacy; North American ingenuity tends to come though at times like this.

(Biased Canadian here)

 

[wacko]

^ make sure you charge USA an arm and a leg. Canada First.

 

[jackbarron]

I can't see how flexing muscles against the Chinese is gutless. Maverick maybe, a hollow promise maybe. But it was the right promise.

It is exactly the wrong promise and typical of ideologically rabid Johnson and the Tories. It's hard to believe Dominic Cummings would be this thick, but then he's a very dangerous man.

This is what I wrote, somewhat sarcastically, in a thread about Hong Kong you started in 2019:

"The Brexiteers will be clamouring for us to fire a nuke at China, cheered on by Johnson, Hunt, Farage and Yaxley Lennon."

The situation is nowhere near that extreme yet, but it's on its way.

Have you ever lived in Hong Kong?

A friend of mine has for 35 years. He's English, was born in London, supports Arsenal and used to work for the toy manufacturer Hornby. They sent him there three and a half decades ago to get parts for toys.

The guy saw the potential for manufacturing toys in Hong Kong and China. He left Hornby and set up his own successful firm there. He's made a lot of money.

He is now 76 years old and thinks the so-called democracy protestors in Hong Kong have brought the legal clampdown on themselves. The bottom line, he says, is Hong Kong belongs to China, nobody else, especially Trump or Chris Patten and the far-right Tories.

It remains to be seen whether Johnson's promise will amount to anything and what the Chinese will do about it. As they have made clear though, they won't sit idly by.

Tick-tock ...

Jack

 

[wacko]

^ I have to say Jack that a largely agree with that. I do feel sorry for the middle class HKers who have tasted freedom of expression for a generation.
The richest 1 million will be able to leave and many already have foreign passports, especially Canadian.
China and the protestors have misjudged one another but that could only end one way. Trump and Covid together hastened that end.
When you consider the damage that Brexit plus Covid will do to the UK economy then a fight with China is just icing on the cake.

 

[richardg]

All fascists should be resisted in any way. It all helps.

 

[tones]

It occurs to me that this could ultimately mean war with Taiwan. China tried to entice Taiwan under the "one country, two systems" idea for Hong Kong. Now that the Taiwanese have seen the inevitable consequences of that policy, I somehow doubt that they'll be signing up for it. Meaning that the only way that China can recover Taiwan is by force,

 

[Alan Chung]

He is now 76 years old and thinks the so-called democracy protestors in Hong Kong have brought the legal clampdown on themselves. The bottom line, he says, is Hong Kong belongs to China, nobody else, especially Trump or Chris Patten and the far-right Tories.

I was going to say the same thing but am glad to see a non-Chinese Hongkonger share the same view. Unfortunately HK has become the new battle ground between China and the US, and as always Taiwan is a card the US love to play against China. Funding and inciting the youngsters in HK to go on the streets has turned out to be a very cost effective warfare for the US in this power struggle. Recovering Taiwan by force will be the last thing I want to see. The Chinese have suffered enough of bullying, invasions, civil wars, famines, and natural disasters in the past century or so, the vast majority of us would just like see this (rare) stability we are enjoying last beyond our generation.

I do feel sorry for the middle class HKers who have tasted freedom of expression for a generation.

I guess I can count myself as one of those "middle class HKers". No doubt, the new National Security Law is a major setback for One Country Two Systems, but if I were to choose between the new law and the uprising of the separationists (not that I have a choice), I would choose the former every day as it's the better of the two evils. Personally, I firmly believe that HK just can't survive without China. Just to give you an example, two years ago China decided to stop being the dumping ground for low class waste paper (for recycling) from "outside the boarder", and because of some confusions over the definition of the word "border", HK's waste paper was not allowed to ship to China. Seemingly a trivial matter but the city was in chaos within a week, let alone food and water supply. Some people say they miss the economic boom during the late 80's and the 90's when HK was still under the British rule. But what they fail to understand is that the boom had nothing to do with the British but everything to do with the opening up of China - HK just happened to be in the right place at the right time. In 1993, the GDP of HK is 27% of the size of the whole China, as the territory played the vital role of a middleman in China's trade with the rest of the world. Now we are a mere 2.5% of the size of the mainland's economy; even Shenzhen's economy is bigger than ours. China has moved on, but HK has failed to capitalise on China's growth, especially in high-tech. As it is, HK is still valuable to China at the moment as a window for capitalisation, especially with the US tightening the listing of Chinese companies on NYSE, but make no mistake, nothing comes close to the importance of sovereignty, and do not underestimate the Communist government's determination in defending it. This is a fact that the White House know, the people behind the riots know, and the quiet majority of the HKers also know, only those wrecking havoc and throwing petrol bombs don't.

The richest 1 million will be able to leave and many already have foreign passports, especially Canadian.

The richest need go nowhere, as long as they continue to show their loyalty to the central government. Only those who have been raging war with the law would love to have a foreign passport now, or a few of those who, like me, are fed up with the endless rioting and vandalism. Just a couple of days ago, a rioter who'd stabbed a policeman with a sharp object on the street on 1st July was captured by the police after boarding a London flight with a one-way ticket. He was carrying an expired BN(O) passport with him. TBH, the vast majority of the rioters were born after 1997 any way and are not eligible for the BN(O) passport. Although on paper three million HKers are qualified, not even 1% will actually move to the UK. It's a well calculated move by BJ because he knows the majority of those qualified are over 40. If they do move to the UK, it will be good news for the property market.

 

[ghostbusters]

I was going to say the same thing but am glad to see a non-Chinese Hongkonger share the same view. Unfortunately HK has become the new battle ground between China and the US, and as always Taiwan is a card the US love to play against China. Funding and inciting the youngsters in HK to go on the streets has turned out to be a very cost effective warfare for the US in this power struggle. Recovering Taiwan by force will be the last thing I want to see. The Chinese have suffered enough of bullying, invasions, civil wars, famines, and natural disasters in the past century or so, the vast majority of us would just like see this (rare) stability we are enjoying last beyond our generation.


I guess I can count myself as one of those "middle class HKers". No doubt, the new National Security Law is a major setback for One Country Two Systems, but if I were to choose between the new law and the uprising of the separationists (not that I have a choice), I would choose the former every day as it's the better of the two evils. Personally, I firmly believe that HK just can't survive without China. Just to give you an example, two years ago China decided to stop being the dumping ground for low class waste paper (for recycling) from "outside the boarder", and because of some confusions over the definition of the word "border", HK's waste paper was not allowed to ship to China. Seemingly a trivial matter but the city was in chaos within a week, let alone food and water supply. Some people say they miss the economic boom during the late 80's and the 90's when HK was still under the British rule. But what they fail to understand is that the boom had nothing to do with the British but everything to do with the opening up of China - HK just happened to be in the right place at the right time. In 1993, the GDP of HK is 27% of the size of the whole China, as the territory played the vital role of a middleman in China's trade with the rest of the world. Now we are a mere 2.5% of the size of the mainland's economy; even Shenzhen's economy is bigger than ours. China has moved on, but HK has failed to capitalise on China's growth, especially in high-tech. As it is, HK is still valuable to China at the moment as a window for capitalisation, especially with the US tightening the listing of Chinese companies on NYSE, but make no mistake, nothing comes close to the importance of sovereignty, and do not underestimate the Communist government's determination in defending it. This is a fact that the White House know, the people behind the riots know, and the quiet majority of the HKers also know, only those wrecking havoc and throwing petrol bombs don't.


The richest need go nowhere, as long as they continue to show their loyalty to the central government. Only those who have been raging war with the law would love to have a foreign passport now, or a few of those who, like me, are fed up with the endless rioting and vandalism. Just a couple of days ago, a rioter who'd stabbed a policeman with a sharp object on the street on 1st July was captured by the police after boarding a London flight with a one-way ticket. He was carrying an expired BN(O) passport with him. TBH, the vast majority of the rioters were born after 1997 any way and are not eligible for the BN(O) passport. Although on paper three million HKers are qualified, not even 1% will actually move to the UK. It's a well calculated move by BJ because he knows the majority of those qualified are over 40. If they do move to the UK, it will be good news for the property market.

Totally agree ; purely about supporting the UK property market. A friend of mine in HK said if they do decide to come here, to go back or run a business in HK will almost be impossible as China will retaliate. If he does leave I recommended to him to go to Canada as I see a better future for him there. Though like UK , HK has been pretty much a property/ services based economy for last 30 years

 

[russel]

That will be tricky as China make almost everything the 'civilised' world buys. China also has close to a monopoly on rare earth metals...
HK had a great run but I suspect it is over. The major beneficiary of that will be Singapore.

Rare earths are not that rare in many cases and there are plenty of sites where they could be extracted, even in the U.K., it’s the usual short term thinking that let China become the monopoly supplier.

 

[Seeker_UK]

Rare earths are not that rare in many cases and there are plenty of sites where they could be extracted, even in the U.K., it’s the usual short term thinking that let China become the monopoly supplier.

Money is king and China has sufficient reserves of that to squeeze everyone else out of the market.

 

[boneman]

It always amazes me that China don't stop and wonder why, if given the chance, most of HK would leave and they have to use force to keep their citizens in.

 

[wacko]

It always amazes me that China don't stop and wonder why, if given the chance, most of HK would leave and they have to use force to keep their citizens in.

Not true though is it ? Chinese and HK tourists travel all over the world.

 

[russel]

It always amazes me that China don't stop and wonder why, if given the chance, most of HK would leave and they have to use force to keep their citizens in.

it’s like anywhere else, for politicians the welfare of the party is more important than the welfare of the people.

 

[boneman]

Not true though is it ? Chinese and HK tourists travel all over the world.

OK so why, when the UK announced fast track citizenship to HK residents in the news, did the Chinese govt say that would react strongly to counter? They may travel the world but it's also true they live in fear of their own government on a daily basis.

 

[wacko]

it’s like anywhere else, for politicians the welfare of the party is more important than the welfare of the people.

Events in the USA and UK have rather blurred the benefits of democracy.
The Party in China can be brutal to perceived threats but for the average citizen it has guided the country to unprecedented economic wealth.
What is the old saying: It is the economy, stupid.

 

[wacko]

OK so why, when the UK announced fast track citizenship to HK residents in the news, did the Chinese govt say that would react strongly to counter? They may travel the world but it's also true they live in fear of their own government on a daily basis.

Sovereignty. I don't agree with your last sentence for at least 99% of the population.