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Harbeth P3ESR XD - Friday Musings...

Peter Tyson were selling off a few open box tzeros on EBay recently. I got one for £250 delivered with a voucher to try with the falcons. I reckoned it would be a good indicator of how I liked the LS3/5a with a sub, and I could then upgrade to an SVS at a later date. No likey, not too much spendy. Second hand ones have been selling for that and more.

Looking forward to trying it out when (if) I get my room back from storage duties.
 
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ArtK said:
Interesting. When I spoke to a REL rep, he told me the Zero or 5.
Click to expand...

It's the other way round for me. I was initially looking at the T9x but REL told me it's not good enough for my speakers and recommended the S510 and S812 instead, both above £2k. (gulp). My room is small too, about 3.2 x 7.0m but the larger subs were recommended instead of the smaller models which I initially thought would be adequate. The rep clarified that the quality of my speakers is the main reason the S serie was recommended instead of looking at the room size. I'll be going with the S510, matched with a non-Harbeth.

I've looked at several options including the SVS SB3000. The SVS is great value for money and I'm sure it's wonderful. A video on YouTube describing on the differences between the SVS and REL is rather interesting. No winner or loser, just a matter of preference with distinct differences in sound quality between the two brands, apart from other considerations such as features, aesthetics and build quality which may or may not be important to the potential owner.
 
I watched that video and it initially put me off the SVS since it kept implying that the Rel was better for integrating into a music-focused system. I can’t speak for the very latest Rels, but having owned several in the past, plus various BK models, the EQ, continuous phase adjustment and sheer convenience of the mobile app, combined with its impeccable grip and ability to stop and start, is way beyond any sub I’ve owned before, and it’s it integrates beautifully such that it sounds like a huge full-range floor stander rather than tiddly wee bookshelf plus sub. Better bass in my room than Arden, Adam active or ATC100 active, which might be down to the eq and careful placement…
 
Interesting thread. I previously listened to the P3ESR a few years ago and loved them but missed the bass, as these were to be my main / only speakers at the time. Did consider a sub but the additional cost of adding a sub ruled this out for me. I opted for a pair of Neat motive sx3 which btw are excellent but obviously not ls35a type speaker.

Nowadays have the SHL5+ as my main speakers and after a lot of fiddling with positions think they are brilliant and love the full range sound, however definitely intend to get the P3s or another variant for a second office system in due course. Have a collection of CDs sitting in the office which I never play so maybe nice CD player and Amp combo would be perfect, maybe rega brio & Apollo or something like that..
 
Have followed this thread envious on the sideline. Harbeth P3 seems to be my dream speaker. My room is on the small size.
Every time I have heard the Harbeth the way they generate voices has always impressed me. Voices sound a lot like they do in real life.
I suspect they are are great for movies and dialogue as well.
However I keep hearing that the P3s are "too slow" for electronic dance music or rock. Any truth to this?
The slowness is implied here
https://darko.audio/2011/03/harbeth-p3esr-se-standmount-loudspeaker/
 
kristoffer said:
Have followed this thread envious on the sideline. Harbeth P3 seems to be my dream speaker. My room is on the small size.
Every time I have heard the Harbeth the way they generate voices has always impressed me. Voices sound a lot like they do in real life.
I suspect they are are great for movies and dialogue as well.
However I keep hearing that the P3s are "too slow" for electronic dance music or rock. Any truth to this?
The slowness is implied here
https://darko.audio/2011/03/harbeth-p3esr-se-standmount-loudspeaker/
Click to expand...
I didn’t find them slow and I listened to various genres, including Underworld however the bass was missing there was parts of the music which was just not there. This wasn’t an issue with acoustic for me but with electronic it was. I opted for the neat sx3 which were a better all rounder for me. I imagine a sub would solve this but a good one is pretty expensive.
 
Definitely not slow. If you find them slow the problem lies elsewhere. They’re not bass monsters - hence 13+” 800w sealed sub - but the bass they do offer - 60hz and up - is beautifully balanced, tight and responsive. It just doesn’t do much below 60hz. Now I get effectively flat to 16hz according to REW, save for this being relative to my chosen listening position. It’s not flat elsewhere, but that’s the trade-off when using just one sub.
 
Does anyone have any experience with putting the P3 on a wall? Can it be done? Or do they need to be on stands?
Also I keep hearing that the P3 are near field speakers, but I assume they also work in a living room environment sitting about 13ft away. :)
 
I had mine around that distance away. I never tried hard against a wall, but about 6' from rear and side walls on atabite-filled Solidsteel SS6 stands. They will sound better in near-field than far-field, but that's true of most speakers. But with that said, they sounded great in my room.
 
I finally got my P3ESRXDs plus REL Tx5s working really well about three months ago. I had moved to the Harbeths after having serious problems with booming bass from MA Gold 50s in my little (2.3x3.4m) listening room. I thought the problem came from the rear porting of the MAs. This proved completely wrong when the Harbeths were connected up. Adding a pair of RELs (one per mono block amp) didn't ease the problem, only masked it with more lower bass. I finally started making measurements (REW + UMIK 1) at the end of last year. Initial results showed the Harbeths giving response down to 40Hz, which is impossible for the small box. The problem centred on the room and reflections. Trial and error movements and measurements finally came to a best compromise for the Harbeths, with a smooth response but nothing below 90Hz. I couldn't get the RELs to blend in smoothly using their recommended process so ended up with a Minidsp DDRC-24 feeding the RELs while the Harbeths still get full range unaltered feed. I have to say there were many more iterations to reach this point but for simplicity this finally gave the right sound quality.
To my aged ears it is super for my nearfield set up. Graham Slee Proprius amps give more than enough power and the combo of GrahamSlee Majestic dac/pre with analogue phono or digital streamer give wonderful music.
 
twotone said:
Buy a pair of Stirling Broadcast LS3 5A v2 or V3 if you can afford them.

The Harbeths are very good but they're not in the same league as the SB LS3-5As V2.

I've had both and the Harbeths don't even come close to the SBs personally if you want to stay with the P3 type speaker then Spendor S3-5Rs or 5R2s are better value for money.
Click to expand...

That's what I call sharing the OP's enthusiasm..
:)
 
I tried the P3 ESR (non HD) and they had a lovely rich midrange, but the top end was a bit bright.

I found the Stirling LS3/5a V3's gelled much better in my room. So I've just bought a brand new pair of V3's in my preferred veneer. (I'm selling my old pair in Rosewood in the classifieds - plug)
 
kristoffer said:
Have followed this thread envious on the sideline. Harbeth P3 seems to be my dream speaker. My room is on the small size.
Every time I have heard the Harbeth the way they generate voices has always impressed me. Voices sound a lot like they do in real life.
I suspect they are are great for movies and dialogue as well.
However I keep hearing that the P3s are "too slow" for electronic dance music or rock. Any truth to this?
The slowness is implied here
https://darko.audio/2011/03/harbeth-p3esr-se-standmount-loudspeaker/
Click to expand...

Had the vanilla P3's on home demo and as good as they sounded, they just did not 'rock', ' boogie' or generally let their hair down at all, and this was with 3 different amplifiers- however the SQ was amazing... found myself listening to the speaker and not the music so to speak, every one listens for different things mind.:)

PS; That said went with ProAc Tablette 10- and these are superb with electronica.
 
I’ve owned the P3ESR XD for a few months now, after downsizing.

They get the following things bang on:
  • Tone of voices and instruments. I don’t think I have heard better.
  • Imaging.
  • Detail levels are very high, without ever sounding analytical, or as if they are dissecting a recording. It’s all there but hangs together in a natural, fluid way, that draws you in.
  • Overall the sound is smooth, but without overdoing it, as they still have enough of an edge on guitars etc.
  • Bass is well integrated, fast and there is a surprising amount of it considering their size. They definitely aren’t slow. Just listen to Day at the Races by Jurassic 5, or Lost in Yesterday by Tame Impala, and they power along.
  • A very engaging overall sound, which is perfect for the near-nearish field. I tend to sit around 5ft away.
  • Easy to accommodate and do not visually dominate the average domestic room.
  • They are beautifully made and have a real artisan feel to them.
Potential downsides, depending on your perspective and preferences:
  • They still aren’t going to be particularly dynamic or large sounding if you are used to used to bigger speakers. For sure, I sometimes miss my old Spendor Classic 3/1’s scale, and they offered more of a visceral performance in that respect. On rock, indie, or particularly dynamic music, they were simply superior. I do wonder if a pair of Rel Tzeros or T5X would be a wise move.
  • Likewise, they aren’t punchy/dynamic in the way a pair of ATC SCM11 are, which are also a sealed box of course. I don’t think the ATC’s go much deeper than the P3 (and the latter have a bit more warmth and presence to the bass), but the ATC’s are definitely more dynamic, toe-tapping and upfront with the way they present bass, which can be great for funk or rock music, but can also be a bit dry, relentless and tiring.
  • I would describe the highs as smooth and refined, but with some sweet sparkle involved too. They aren’t rolled off, but they certainly aren’t tipped up or bright either. They’re surprisingly transparent though, so certainly compared to my old Spendor Classics (which have a soft dome tweeter and are silky smooth, almost to the extreme, where some instruments lose their realistic edge), they will communicate that edge and glare if present on the recording. And unfortunately, a lot of modern pop and electronic music can suffer from boosted treble or digital glare, for want of a better phrase, and the Harbeths don’t hide that. I think back to back with most speakers though, the Harbeths would come across as more easy going and refined up top (and that is what I have found, when next to Proac D2R, LS50 Meta, Proac Tablette Signature, ATC SCM11, to name recent comparisons I made). Likewise, I think something like some Dynaudio Special 40 will have more silky smooth highs, but are more ‘well lit’ and forward. So a lot of it needs to be taken in context.
Overall though, I think they’re a beautifully balanced speaker, that is natural, engaging and frequently enchanting to listen to.
 
kristoffer said:
Have followed this thread envious on the sideline. Harbeth P3 seems to be my dream speaker. My room is on the small size.
Every time I have heard the Harbeth the way they generate voices has always impressed me. Voices sound a lot like they do in real life.
I suspect they are are great for movies and dialogue as well.
However I keep hearing that the P3s are "too slow" for electronic dance music or rock. Any truth to this?
The slowness is implied here
https://darko.audio/2011/03/harbeth-p3esr-se-standmount-loudspeaker/
Click to expand...

Well for me they are definitely slow. in fact, one of the slowest, non-dynamic speakers I've ever heard.

That is if you are talking about the p3esr

the new p3esr-XD do not face such problems. They are reasonably fast enough and reasonably dynamic. In exchange, you don't get that much of the seductive mid-range as the original p3esr
 
yunie_ said:
Well for me they are definitely slow. in fact, one of the slowest, non-dynamic speakers I've ever heard.
That is if you are talking about the p3esr
the new p3esr-XD do not face such problems. They are reasonably fast enough and reasonably dynamic. In exchange, you don't get that much of the seductive mid-range as the original p3esr
Click to expand...
I think you either had a serious system mismatch or some weird room issue, since the P3ESR is anything but slow. When driven and setup properly, they are extremely nimble and excel in micro-dynamics. Where they fall down a bit is in scale and bass extension, but you'd expect that from a small inefficient speaker. I'd not quite rate them as fast as an electrostatic speaker - very little is - but for most purposes they are more than capable in keeping up with any musical genre. In fact, they're especially good at speed and pacing IMHO.
 
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