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Harbeth P3ESR XD - Friday Musings...

JTC

JTC

PFM Villager...
Picked up a pair of these at the weekend, mainly out of curiosity (I've been toying with the idea of a second system or even as a possible down-size from the Tannoy Ardens in my main system) and I have to say that they're great little speakers. I think I said elsewhere that I listen at pretty modest levels, and often wondered whether hulking great 15" DC cabinets scowling in the corner of the room made that much sense. After all, though they can unquestionably rock out, most of what I listen to is 'middle-aged bloke with a guitar' and/or 'dead or legendary 60s-70s band', and there's surprisingly little call for stygian levels of bass.

So, it's with some amusement that, at a given volume level (determined by my iPhone, so not robust science) for the most part the tiny Harbeths and the big Tannoys sound pretty close. Sure, there's more solidity to the bass with the Tannoys, and they definitely go deeper, but the Harbeths do a decent facsimile of bass (mostly first harmonic with a bit of room-gain illusion) which is perceptibly as tight (if not as genuinely deep or augmented) as that from the large DC drivers.

From mids up, it's a close thing. I would argue that there is a tiny bit more detail and transparency in the Harbeths to the Tannoys. They have better treble IMHO, but I am a lousy judge of HF due to iffy hearing. Vocals are nice on either system. They're bloody close.

Crank the handle and the Ardens pull away like a V12 supercar compared to a tricked out 1L hot hatch. No contest; totty Harbeths don't really scale in a meaningful way in comparison. Mind you, it's very rare indeed that I push the Ardens to this point. Most of the time we're pootling along and I'd say at lower levels (my 80% comfortable place - 55-75dB) it seems daft to have such large speakers. Sure, they sound great but they don't come on song quite the same as the Harbs do at those levels. Maybe it's a matter of perspective - the Ardens are unquestionably the more complete speaker, that win by most comparisons, but they are much more expensive, much larger and arguably overkill for me.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the simple life of Harbeths on inexpensive stands (that we had in the attic). They're almost entirely satisfying, beyond maybe that occasional foray into loudness, or the occasional track with deep bass. Can I live with them as an only speaker? I have no idea. But I'm having fun experiencing their different take on music, and I won't lie that I wouldn't earn big brownie points by removing the big beasties from the room.... but I'm not sure Harbs+sub(s) would quite equal Big Tannoys...

Tune in later for more musings as I convince myself fore and aft. Meantime, I consider this an Excellent and Lucky Situation to be in... life's not bad :)
 
Tip: if you're trying to match SPLs between the Tannoys and Harbs using an SPL meter or iPhone etc using wideband music or test signals, I recommend using A-weighting instead of C- or Z-weighting, because the Tannoy's superior bass extension will give significantly higher readings on C- and Z-and may therefore give the false impression that they are playing louder than the Harbs when they're not.
 
Buy a pair of Stirling Broadcast LS3 5A v2 or V3 if you can afford them.

The Harbeths are very good but they're not in the same league as the SB LS3-5As V2.

I've had both and the Harbeths don't even come close to the SBs personally if you want to stay with the P3 type speaker then Spendor S3-5Rs or 5R2s are better value for money.

I'm using Totem Kin Minis at the minute with the SVS Mirco 3000 sub and they are amazing speakers for their size and their price I also have a Totem min-flex speaker which can be used in any orientation ie horizontally or vertically.

The Kin minis roll off at 90hz but in all honesty they really don't need a sub for bass but they're designed to be part of a 2.1 set up and a sub does bring out the best of the speaker.

I wish I had discovered Totem acoustic years ago, amazing speakers, I can only imagine what they're pricier speakers sound like.
 
the p3esr are my fave harbeth . played them with arcam and they were good . the xd versions have been mooted to be a bit brighter than the original
 
Interesting thread, I’m doing exactly the same with my CELEF & Boenicke. Are the Boenicke better speakers, yes most certainly, could I live with the little CELEF, most certainly, yes.

Enjoy having fun.
 
twotone said:
Buy a pair of Stirling Broadcast LS3 5A v2 or V3 if you can afford them.
The Harbeths are very good but they're not in the same league as the SB LS3-5As V2.
I've had both and the Harbeths don't even come close to the SBs personally if you want to stay with the P3 type speaker then Spendor S3-5Rs or 5R2s are better value for money.
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I can afford them easily but wouldn't pay that. I also doubt that there would be much difference in practice - the room and the size of the speakers is probably more limiting. I personally think £1-1.5k is about as much as one should spend on such a small speaker; above that price and it starts to feel like a lot of money when you can get much larger speaker. In my case, though, I had a pair of Spendors which weren't much cop (certainly nowhere as good as the P3ESRs) and I have the large Tannoys, so a small speaker has to really offer a lot to justify its price. Which, at the (used) asking price, the P3ESRs certainly do, but I wouldn't spend the new price on them when you can buy full range speakers of similar standard for not a lot more (e.g. Tannoy Cheviots, say).

To be honest, I doubt there's much to improve in terms of what the P3ESR does; spending more money probably just adds more scale (not required) and bass extension (again, not why I bought them).
 
Had a pair of Harbeths PSESR and, beguiling as they were with certain types of music, found the Spendor A1’s superior at near half the price. I think Harbeth occupy the ‘Rolex territory’ that brands like Naim do and can set their price wherever they please and it will still sell. One observation though, the diminutive P3’s are much heavier than others in the near-field monitor camp, something internally is of a very high quality to be fair to Harbeth…..
 
@JTC I have listened to the Spendor S 3/5 SE this week until I have changed the system back to the BIG Altec 604 E Superduplex.
I totally understand you, sure the bigger Altecs do bass and scale better but the tiny Spendors also have something very seductive. Both need different distances, the Spendors very close at best, the Altecs more than 3m. I could live with both but I really can't say that the small Spendor would be a (big) downgrade.
 
JoeJoe said:
Had a pair of Harbeths PSESR and, beguiling as they were with certain types of music, found the Spendor A1’s superior at near half the price. I think Harbeth occupy the ‘Rolex territory’ that brands like Naim do and can set their price wherever they please and it will still sell. One observation though, the diminutive P3’s are much heavier than others in the near-field monitor camp, something internally is of a very high quality to be fair to Harbeth…..
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Or there's half a brick velcro'd to the bottom of the cabinet?
 
Have to agree, the P3ESRs are wonderful sounding speakers. Enjoyed owning a pair for a while. They can’t go too loud though and, they’re not suitable for all genres of music. The new price is a bit steep though!
 
I really like the Harbeth P3-ESRs too. I've also have original Rogers LS3/5As and Stirling Broadcast V2s. There isn't a huge difference between them, but my clear favourites are the Harbeths. It never ceases to amaze me how they fill my 6m x 12m listening room with sound, and they integrate well with a BK subwoofer, a combination which really drives the room and leaves me wondering why I would ever go back to bigger speakers, which I've had in the past.

My only criticism of the Harbeths, and the Rogers and Sterlings, is the prices when new, which I would never pay. Second hand at around half to two thirds of the price when new seems about right to me :) The price of original LS3/5As has been driven skyhigh by Far East collectors and now represents very poor value for money imho.
 
I bought the Harbeths about the same time you enquired about my ANJs. I am again hugely impressed at what can be achieved by such small speakers. I already have two pairs of excellent Spendor D1s. I wouldn't think of going to any expense or trouble deciding between the various manifestations of these small speakers. Since I have decided to keep my ANJs I will be selling one pair of my Spendors. But I would add: this is so I have a comparison - and the Harbeths are new to me. Were I only keeping one pair I would keep the Spendors as they have delighted me for several years and I play them perhaps more than the ANJs. It could easily have be the other way round I think.
 
JTC said:
I can afford them easily but wouldn't pay that. I also doubt that there would be much difference in practice - the room and the size of the speakers is probably more limiting. I personally think £1-1.5k is about as much as one should spend on such a small speaker; above that price and it starts to feel like a lot of money when you can get much larger speaker.

... spending more money probably just adds more scale (not required) and bass extension (again, not why I bought them).
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Exactly my sentiments as well. The costlier "high-end" small speakers may offer more in areas of clarity, detail and transparency in the midrange and treble. Nevertheless, once the plateau is reached it's point of diminishing returns. Although small speakers are capable of sounding very good, they are still limited in scale and bass.

I now find mid sized monitors to be a good compromise, speakers with a 7.5" or 8" main driver and a cabinet that isn't too large. I usually avoid large speakers the size of say Harbeth 40.2 as the interface between large speakers and the room is always a tricky thing. Less effort to achieve good results with smaller speakers.
 
I'm supposedly the far east audiophile that resulted in the hype up prices of ls3/5a

Its true. A shipment of harbeth came to our distributor that day. Around 8 adults gathered like kids in the small shop to see the distributor unbox it.

I felt like a kid again
 
Sounds like neither speaker is right for the OP? Why not try an ATC stand mount? AMP will drive them easily enough, loads of options out there.
 
Woodface said:
Sounds like neither speaker is right for the OP? Why not try an ATC stand mount? AMP will drive them easily enough, loads of options out there.
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I’ve done the large ATC thing but ultimately it wasn’t for me. Doubt (from what I’ve read) that the ATC stand mounts would be my thing either.
 
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