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Harbeth P3ESR XD - Friday Musings...

Small boxes seem to be in fashion at the moment.
Is the Tannoy era starting to fade?

yes had some amazing standmounts but few to match the tannoy eatons legacy . none in fact .... that includes focal diablo utopia , p3esr , shl5plus , amphion 3s and a few more !!! trouble is tannoy are not made in Uk now so i guess not so easy to get . funnily enough a dealer in scotland has advertised the same pair since december 2019 and still on the website but long gone i believe :rolleyes:
 
Have you verified this with your own ears or are you basing this assertion on what others say?
Neither. I either go small (with or w/o sub) and enjoy getting a decent amount of space back, coupled with ~£3k back to my piggy bank, or stick with the Ardens (which I love) and sell the P3ESRs. Or keep them for the second living room and run with the Nait 2 or via the second speaker outs from the Luxman. Selling both to buy something inbetween doesn’t make much sense to me, since the objective was to see whether I could live with a small stand-mount as a main.
 
yes had some amazing standmounts but few to match the tannoy eatons legacy . none in fact .... that includes focal diablo utopia , p3esr , shl5plus , amphion 3s and a few more !!! trouble is tannoy are not made in Uk now so i guess not so easy to get . funnily enough a dealer in scotland has advertised the same pair since december 2019 and still on the website but long gone i believe :rolleyes:
The mids and HF of the P3ESR easily hold their own against the Ardens, and most likely the Eatons too…
 
I’ve done the large ATC thing but ultimately it wasn’t for me. Doubt (from what I’ve read) that the ATC stand mounts would be my thing either.
Fair enough, depends what you have nearby that can be listened to. Perhaps you just get bored of a certain sound?
 
indeed ... not the bass though :D:D
It’s just as tight and fast (possibly slightly faster) but obviously pretty much stops around 60Hz. Though it doesn’t sound obviously lacking except by comparison. I find I can follow intricate bass lines just fine. Its bass - such as it is - is pretty much perfect. It’s just that there’s not that much of it….
 
Small boxes seem to be in fashion at the moment.
Is the Tannoy era starting to fade?

Correct answer is both, obvs! For me the perspective of LS3/5As setup in the nearfield and the 15” Tannoy Lockwoods bring a sufficiently different perspective and insight that whilst I could happily live with either, I really don’t see the need to. I can understand far more about a piece of music/recording by cross-referencing between the two. I’m also far happier having both these than any middle-ground option I’m aware of.
 
I too like and prefer small, unobtrusive speakers (Hifi in general). My ideal is probably a lovely wall wide/high bookshelf or full library with speakers and electronics 'hidden' in between ... books. Exactly what my father had ... including his Revox R2R.

Saying that, good larger speakers have an ease that is almost impossible to get with tiny cabinets/drivers. Life's one big compromise.
 
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Correct answer is both, obvs! For me the perspective of LS3/5As setup in the nearfield and the 15” Tannoy Lockwoods bring a sufficiently different perspective and insight that whilst I could happily live with either, I really don’t see the need to. I can understand far more about a piece of music/recording by cross-referencing between the two. I’m also far happier having both these than any middle-ground option I’m aware of.

Easier if you are single Tony.
 
Picked up a pair of these at the weekend, mainly out of curiosity (I've been toying with the idea of a second system or even as a possible down-size from the Tannoy Ardens in my main system) and I have to say that they're great little speakers. I think I said elsewhere that I listen at pretty modest levels, and often wondered whether hulking great 15" DC cabinets scowling in the corner of the room made that much sense. After all, though they can unquestionably rock out, most of what I listen to is 'middle-aged bloke with a guitar' and/or 'dead or legendary 60s-70s band', and there's surprisingly little call for stygian levels of bass.

So, it's with some amusement that, at a given volume level (determined by my iPhone, so not robust science) for the most part the tiny Harbeths and the big Tannoys sound pretty close. Sure, there's more solidity to the bass with the Tannoys, and they definitely go deeper, but the Harbeths do a decent facsimile of bass (mostly first harmonic with a bit of room-gain illusion) which is perceptibly as tight (if not as genuinely deep or augmented) as that from the large DC drivers.

From mids up, it's a close thing. I would argue that there is a tiny bit more detail and transparency in the Harbeths to the Tannoys. They have better treble IMHO, but I am a lousy judge of HF due to iffy hearing. Vocals are nice on either system. They're bloody close.

Crank the handle and the Ardens pull away like a V12 supercar compared to a tricked out 1L hot hatch. No contest; totty Harbeths don't really scale in a meaningful way in comparison. Mind you, it's very rare indeed that I push the Ardens to this point. Most of the time we're pootling along and I'd say at lower levels (my 80% comfortable place - 55-75dB) it seems daft to have such large speakers. Sure, they sound great but they don't come on song quite the same as the Harbs do at those levels. Maybe it's a matter of perspective - the Ardens are unquestionably the more complete speaker, that win by most comparisons, but they are much more expensive, much larger and arguably overkill for me.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the simple life of Harbeths on inexpensive stands (that we had in the attic). They're almost entirely satisfying, beyond maybe that occasional foray into loudness, or the occasional track with deep bass. Can I live with them as an only speaker? I have no idea. But I'm having fun experiencing their different take on music, and I won't lie that I wouldn't earn big brownie points by removing the big beasties from the room.... but I'm not sure Harbs+sub(s) would quite equal Big Tannoys...

Tune in later for more musings as I convince myself fore and aft. Meantime, I consider this an Excellent and Lucky Situation to be in... life's not bad :)


What amp was you using to drive Harbeth's Sir.:)
 
Ive owned Stirling V2s and Spendor S3/5R S3/5r2. Ive never owned any Harbeth P3 variations, mainly because even second hand they are £1K. However I've been intrigued enough to spend some time on the Harbeth forum.

Alan Shaw has said he voices his speakers to sound balanced at low volumes as well as high. Has sited the neighbour friendliness especially of the P3ESR in this respect in a small apartment/ flat.

For all the small monitors Ive tried Ive found they need to be turned up a bit to get the most enjoyment. Maybe some P3 owners could comment on this aspect of being balanced at low volumes?
 
Alan Shaw has said he voices his speakers to sound balanced at low volumes as well as high.
This is a contradiction. Due to the F-M effect speakers voiced to sound balanced at higher SPLs will sound rolled off at both frequency extremes at lower SPLs, while speakers voiced to sound balanced at lower SPLs will sound jacked up at both frequency extremes at higher SPLs. Perhaps Alan means he's achieved compromise by voicing the speakers to sound balanced in the 'middle ground' between lower and higher SPLs?
 
Ive owned Stirling V2s and Spendor S3/5R S3/5r2. Ive never owned any Harbeth P3 variations, mainly because even second hand they are £1K. However I've been intrigued enough to spend some time on the Harbeth forum.

Alan Shaw has said he voices his speakers to sound balanced at low volumes as well as high. Has sited the neighbour friendliness especially of the P3ESR in this respect in a small apartment/ flat.

For all the small monitors Ive tried Ive found they need to be turned up a bit to get the most enjoyment. Maybe some P3 owners could comment on this aspect of being balanced at low volumes?

P3s are amazing for low volume listening that was the main reason I bought a pair.

BTW, you should buy a pair and try them out you'll not lose out, think I paid £950 for the pair I had and sold them for that amount about a year later.

The S3/5R2s are every bit as good as the P3s at half the second hand price, think I paid £450 for the pair I had and sold them on again to a guy in Spain for £450 plus postage to Spain, great speakers and they were completely under the radar at the time I bought mine, there was a battered pair on here for about £300 back then which was about five years ago.
 
I think you're right. It was on the old version of the Harbeth forum, dont know if they migrated it all over when it was modernised?
The point being made in the discussion was that so many manufacturers made speakers that didn't come alive properly and sound balanced until the volume was turned up loud.
 
The thing is, will you actually save any space by replacing the ardens? I know, they are physically large in front of you, but they don't need space behind them, so realistically if you place a speaker on a stand in their space, you have less visibly to look at, but i'm not sure you'll actually gain any useful floorspace in the room.

That's my story, which helps me justify my 15 inch HPDs in custom cabs (smaller than your ardens, but bigger than berkeleys). I rotate them with other speakers here, Obelisks and ESL57s, and the obelisks are the better all round and liveable alternative for me, but the Tannoys do something magic with the right music...
 
I think I’ll gain quite a bit of space (speakers probably roughly where they’ll end up):

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Part of the problem is access to the window and space behind the Ardens at present. My only worry is ensuring that the Harbeths would be secure enough where they are now. This is a temp arrangement but they work very, very well in this position. Maybe the Ardens act as a sort of PBR, though not obviously…
 
Part of the problem is access to the window and space behind the Ardens at present. My only worry is ensuring that the Harbeths would be secure enough where they are now. This is a temp arrangement but they work very, very well in this position. Maybe the Ardens act as a sort of PBR, though not obviously…
More likely the Ardens are acting as a bass-trap IMO. I noticed the room's undesirable contribution more when I removed the big Tannoys from my room, these were were positioned directly behind my Dittons in a similar arrangement to what you currently have.

Have you tried the Harbs in the Ardens spot yet? Hopefully it will sound just as good, or with a bit of luck even better, but it's quite possible that it may sound worse because you are moving further out of the nearfield arrangement.
 
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