Guy Martin’s blue minnow car programme.

[cutting42]

How much energy will be required to dig up all the roads to enable enough electricity to supply all the EV's on charge ?

As most people will wish to charge their EV's at night how much sustainable solar power is generated at that time ???

Much like 3D TV and 5G mobile it all sounds great.......

China has over a thousand coal fired power stations..

1/ None, we have cables already to every house. Running a power cable is easier than building a petrol station or running hydrogen lines. Fast charging stations will need ore power but they are sited near sub stations for a reason.

2/ None but lots of nuclear, hydro wind and wave power is

3/ Yes it does although 3D TV never did.

4/ So what. China is also the biggest generator of wind power in the world,they also are the biggest hydro generator and biggest solar generator with over 900GW generation by renewables. Major parts of their investment is in renewables as they face the same challenges as the west.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China

 

[andyoz]

I mentioned upthread that I was surprised there were no EV coupes. Many are second cars and don’t need the practicality or range of the family barge. And the halo effect of cool EVs should help with image and wider adoption.

They're coming. It's just that the companies have to release the SUV stuff to appeal to the masses...

The EV platform is so simple that they just plonk whatever 'top' they need onto it. Hyundai has about six different shapes to use on their current IONOQ platform I think. I'm hoping to see radical front ends appearing eventually (no requirement for radiators) so I assume all that'll hold them back is pedestrian safety stuff.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I reckon EV police cars will come equipped with car tasers, powered by the EV batteries. Should bring car chases to an early end.

I wonder how long the threads on police forums would be when they discuss which cables to use…

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

They're coming. It's just that the companies have to release the SUV stuff to appeal to the masses...

The EV platform is so simple that they just plonk whatever 'top' they need onto it. Hyundai has about six different shapes to use on their current IONOQ platform I think. I'm hoping to see radical front ends appearing eventually (no requirement for radiators) so I assume all that'll hold them back is pedestrian safety stuff.

I’m sure that’s right. I just query the manufacturers doing it this way round. A mass-market product has to be many things to many people, and range and charging anxiety will rule it out for a lot. Family barges aren’t the preserve of early adopters. Whereas funky, cool coupes…

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I’m sure that’s right. I just query the manufacturers doing it this way round. A mass-market product has to be many things to many people, and range and charging anxiety will rule it out for a lot. Family barges aren’t the preserve of early adopters. Whereas funky, cool coupes…

It’s done this way round because there’s stacks of room below the floor of an SUV when compared to a little, low coupé. A high up coupé looks crap in my opinion. The makers have to sell what’ll be bought in large numbers at this point in EV development, the tasty stuff for us mere mortals will come later.

 

[misterdog]

1/ None, we have cables already to every house

Enough supply to power our car charging and air source heat pumps, at night, and in winter when there is 'little' solar ?
Every house on every street ?
My supply is lead lined and installed before 1970, but I'm sure your'e correct that it is capable of providing the capacity which may be required from whatever 'green' source is available.

I suspect your maths on the current carrying capacity of street cabling capacity may need revision though.

Of course while we fritter at the margins of reducing our carbon emmisions the rest of the world is undergoing the industrial revolution we had over 100 years ago. Using mostly coal to fuel this.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants

So I hope your 3D TV is providing you as much new tech comfort as getting to within 10 Metres of a mast to enable your 5G signal on your mobile phone.

Save the planet.......

 

[misterdog]

None but lots of nuclear,

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/history-behind-germanys-nuclear-phase-out

 

[cutting42]

Enough supply to power our car charging and air source heat pumps, at night, and in winter when there is 'little' solar ?
Every house on every street ?
My supply is lead lined and installed before 1970, but I'm sure your'e correct that it is capable of providing the capacity which may be required from whatever 'green' source is available.

I suspect your maths on the current carrying capacity of street cabling capacity may need revision though.

Of course while we fritter at the margins of reducing our carbon emmisions the rest of the world is undergoing the industrial revolution we had over 100 years ago. Using mostly coal to fuel this.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants

So I hope your 3D TV is providing you as much new tech comfort as getting to within 10 Metres of a mast to enable your 5G signal on your mobile phone.

Save the planet.......

Most houses are 100A 230VAC supply my Tesla charges at a max of 32A at night when not much else in my house is running so no issues and plenty of capacity. Some older houses probably only have a 60A supply maybe you have a bit of wet string and a PP9, no idea and I don't know what your air source heat pump draws either, electric showers can be 40A as can some hobs. Like the chap who wants to drive 400 miles every day non stop I am sure you can find the exception to the rule for EV charging.

The point is the infrastructure is there already that works great currently (sic) and has capacity for the near future but at some point it will need to be upgraded, just like new fibre cables, a new cable is simple to install.

Investment in renewables has never been higher and will continue to grow. Renewables now account for around a third of all electricity generation, increasing massively, more than doubling in the last 20 years with coal generation flat despite the growth in China and India

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-energy-review-2021/renewables

Don't have 3D (never will) or 5G (yet)

I grew up in a low carbon supporting household as my dad worked on every nuclear power station in the UK at some point in his career. Lazy politics killed the UK nuclear industry, we had the best expertise in the world and gave it up or sold it off.

 

[Monitor Gold 10]

On the Guy Martin programme I think they said that about 600 new EV charging points a week are being installed in the U.K. that’s at least a little reassuring.

Not so good was his trial journey to John o’Groats and back. Half the charging points he tried didn’t work. Can you just imagine if half the fuel stations in Britain ‘didn’t work’….?

I've clear memories of the fuel shortage and resultant panic back in the early 2000's!

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I've clear memories of the fuel shortage and resultant panic back in the early 2000's!

Get some time in, smalley!

 

[misterdog]

The point is the infrastructure is there already that works great currently (sic) and has capacity for the near future but at some point it will need to be upgraded, just like new fibre cables, a new cable is simple to install.

I'm well aware that every house has a 60 or 100 amp main fuse .
That however does not mean that all 50 or 100 houses on that street can all draw 60/100 amps at the same time, from the cable ( actually three) as it is three phase mains. The capacity of that cable will be limited.

Digging up every street and replacing with bigger cables will be ' simple to install ' I'm sure.

They can probably just use a draw wire to pull them through the no longer required gas pipes.....
simples.

 

[misterdog]

my dad worked on every nuclear power station in the UK at some point in his career. Lazy politics killed the UK nuclear industry, we had the best expertise in the world and gave it up or sold it off.

Or ran out of places to hide the toxic waste products for 20,000 years ?

 

[tqineil]

I'm a fan of nuclear in truth and agree with @cutting42, lost opportunity

 

[cutting42]

Or ran out of places to hide the toxic waste products for 20,000 years ?

Nope one of his projects was Pond 5 at Windscale, just build more storage facilities

 

[misterdog]

I've clear memories of the fuel shortage and resultant panic back in the early 2000's!

Indeed, and even during the 1970's fuel shortage the advice was to 'not carry any excess weight in your vehicle'.

Now the advice from engineers, scientists and the marketing lobby, seems to be that carrying an extra 25Kg for a start stop system in your vehicle is saving the planet.

The truth is out there.

Just as it is in audio, ' XLR cables ar only needed in studios and on stage where long runs and noisy environments are present'.

Extremely low distortion sound reproduction sounds clinical and sterile.

 

[cutting42]

I'm well aware that every house has a 60 or 100 amp main fuse .
That however does not mean that all 50 or 100 houses on that street can all draw 60/100 amps at the same time, from the cable ( actually three) as it is three phase mains. The capacity of that cable will be limited.

Digging up every street and replacing with bigger cables will be ' simple to install ' I'm sure.

They can probably just use a draw wire to pull them through the no longer required gas pipes.....
simples.

Yes it is limited but EV charging does not happen all the time, I charge about 2 times a week roughly, smart chargers assess load and balance accordingly. Average mileage is 10k miles a year or under 30 miles a day, not a very big load if you share it. The point being this is not a static situation things will improve and be upgraded as we need it. I suspect large cables will not be needed until we reach over 50% EV usage. That is decades away.

 

[misterdog]

Nope one of his projects was Pond 5 at Windscale, just build more storage facilities

Nuclear fission is old hat though fusion is the new darling.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ds-worlds-first-nuclear-fusion-power-station/

 

[misterdog]

I suspect large cables will not be needed until we reach over 50% EV usage. That is decades away.

Decades away ???????

The problem is now.
https://news.sky.com/story/a-wake-u...-first-climate-change-induced-famine-12391000

50% EV useage is peeing in the wind as home heating produces far more CO2.

Still science has all the answers.

How much larger will the mains cables in the street need to be to supply every home with electric power for their air source heat pumps ?

The average home requires around 12,000 kilowatt hours (KwH) of heat per year. Therefore, in order to achieve this, a heat pump with a CoP of three would use 4,000 kW of electricity annually. This figure will depend on the size of your home, how well insulated it is and how much hot water you use. It will also depend on the efficiency of your heat pump.

All this electricity for heating homes and charging cars is predominantly required during evenings and in winter.

Solar future.

 

[cutting42]

Decades away ???????

The problem is now.
https://news.sky.com/story/a-wake-u...-first-climate-change-induced-famine-12391000

50% EV useage is peeing in the wind as home heating produces far more CO2.

To get over 50% of all global car use converted to EV, yes I believe decades. Is it too slow? Hell yes, convert the sahara to solar, drill geo thermal heat exchangers, build a million wind farms, close all the coal stations yes of course but equally do what you can with what you have got whilst funding and driving change. If we wait for perfection we will achieve nothing.

Re solar, I refer you to previous responses, many other power sources and that's before we look at home powerwall storage of daytime solar or in fact any other renewable energy.

 

[a.palfreyman]

Not followed this entire thread, but food for thought for certain.
I compiled some info from the net and spent about an hour working out the following:

Petrol = 45MJ/kg (Heat values of various fuels - World Nuclear Association (world-nuclear.org))

Relative density of petrol = 0.8

Therefore, heat value of petrol = 36MJ/l

My car (Citroen C2 1.1VT) does 120 miles/week and uses on average 12.5l/week (all-year round)

Weekly usage is 36 x 12.5 = 450MJ

Rate for 4.5 hours travel time = 100MJ/h

From 1MJ/hr = 278W, 100MJ/h = 27.8kW and 4.5 hrs usage gives = 125kWh per week

Cost = £16 (@ £1.285/l)

Carbon value = 39kg of CO2 per week (@ 14.3 kg CO2 per gallon of fuel and 2.75 gallons/week, Emissions from cars (carbonindependent.org))

Vauxhall Corsa e uses 0.26kWh/mile, 120 x 0.26 = 31kWh/week (Energy consumption of electric vehicles cheatsheet - EV Database (ev-database.uk))

Cost = 31x £0.22/kWh = £6.82

Carbon value = 9.6 kg CO2 per week (0.31kge/kWh Emissions from home energy use (carbonindependent.org))

So as a rough guestimate (providing my figures and interpretation are correct) I could be producing 10kg/week CO2 instead of 40kg/week currently

I would save approx £500/year in fuel costs and 1.5 tons (!) of CO2, but no idea what a charging station and installation would be, esp as my car is parked along my path at about 100m from my house so would probably need 100m of 16mm2 armour cable laying in a trench to provide the juice to the charging station. Reckon there wouldn't be much change form £7k-10k. As always it's practicalities etc that make it a difficult choice, not to mention the extra capacity within the 'system' in order to cope with the demand. I also tend to buy older cars (my Citroen is 59 plate) so buying the car would be a large investment compared to my usual habit.