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Gropegate: Conservative Party Conference 2019

sean99 said:
I have pre-ordered their book. I expect it to become an article of historical relevance. Fantastic effort by LedByDonkeys
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Couldn't stop myself making a donation last night.
They are the real deal in these times of mediocrity.
 
Led By Donkeys hardcover book down to £7.20 on Amazon at present. Bargain!
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Seanm said:
They do snarky ads that make remainers feel better. They're the "Keep Calm and Carry On!" of the day.
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I'm beyond amazed that you have suggested this and my only explanation is that you have been told that it's all pure panto.
 
Apologies for mocking the Led by Donkeys lads they're probably good for morale and are certainly doing less damage to the remain cause than, say, "the party of remain".
 
Seanm said:
Apologies for mocking the Led by Donkeys lads they're probably good for morale and are certainly doing less damage to the remain cause than, say, "the party of remain".
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But that still implies you think they are doing damage to the Remain cause?

It seems to me that any ‘damage’ would be in the eyes of incorrigible Leavers, so no real damage at all in any meaningful sense. Am I missing something?
 
Well, one of the big problems of satire has in mass media is it helps people blow off steam so that once everyone has had a jolly good shout about it everyone settles down and it’s business as usual. Why I quickly got tired of people like John Oliver, there’s only so much impotent shouting by liberal white men I can take. And it’s not just about men; Rachel Maddow is doing quite nicely out of her particular brand of self-righteous indignation but in the years that she’s been doing this no tangible benefit has come from her. It’s ineffective activism. Nice income from it, if you crack the formula of what sells to ppl who are annoyed but not enough to weaponise their feelings.

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claire.foxx said:
Well, one of the big problems of satire has in mass media is it helps people blow off steam so that once everyone has had a jolly good shout about it everyone settles down and it’s business as usual. Why I quickly got tired of people like John Oliver, there’s only so much impotent shouting by liberal white men I can take. And it’s not just about men; Rachel Maddow is doing quite nicely out of her particular brand of self-righteous indignation but in the years that she’s been doing this no tangible benefit has come from her. It’s ineffective activism. Nice income from it, if you crack the formula of what sells to ppl who are annoyed but not enough to weaponise their feelings.
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As Ian Hislop said "satire certainly did a lot to stop Hitler".

Very good and all that but the "opposition" spending time thinking that other aspects of the opposition is not pure enough, futile, just in it for themselves, ineffective, counter-productive (delete to taste) strikes me as a particularly curiosity of the Liberal left, where self loathing and sniping at each other too often comes easier than uniting to further common objectives. It just helps the right, who have no such qualms and end up dividing their opposition so easily as a result. Johnson is running a shambles, but compared to the broad opposition, they look full of purpose and organised.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
But that still implies you think they are doing damage to the Remain cause?

It seems to me that any ‘damage’ would be in the eyes of incorrigible Leavers, so no real damage at all in any meaningful sense. Am I missing something?
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I just think an incorrigible leaver, and even a corrigible one, isn't going to look at that stuff and think, "Wha-a-at? We've been had!" They're going to think, "We're being harangued by a gang of smart-arse media tosspots". And they wouldn't be wrong.

I basically think Brexit is a culture war and the right are always going to win a culture war. The only way to beat Brexit is to talk about things other than Brexit. This kind of stuff fills up media space and at best helps keep the whole thing on the road, at worst contributes to exactly the kind of polarisation that feeds the right. I don't question their motives or their purity or anything else but I don't think it's helping.

Thinking about it I don't even think it's good that it's feeding morale. Remainers are in a bad place right now, just utterly bamboozled both by their opponents and their dunderheaded leaders: if they get any more fired up they are for sure going to push us into no deal, either out of fatalism, anger or simple-mindedness. They don't need a morale boost, they need disillusioning, a cold shower.
 
Seanm said:
utterly bamboozled [] by [] their dunderheaded leaders
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looking south, i certainly agree here, though maybe not so much bamboozled as simply badly disappointed, let down sort of thing. looking around up here, i am more than happy with our leader
 
HairyHaggis said:
looking south, i certainly agree here, though maybe not so much bamboozled as simply badly disappointed, let down sort of thing. looking around up here, i am more than happy with our leader
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SNP seem to be doing the right thing. Lib Dem supporters need to have a word with their representatives.
 
Seanm said:
I just think an incorrigible leaver, and even a corrigible one, isn't going to look at that stuff and think, "Wha-a-at? We've been had!" They're going to think, "We're being harangued by a gang of smart-arse media tosspots". And they wouldn't be wrong.

I basically think Brexit is a culture war and the right are always going to win a culture war. The only way to beat Brexit is to talk about things other than Brexit. This kind of stuff fills up media space and at best helps keep the whole thing on the road, at worst contributes to exactly the kind of polarisation that feeds the right. I don't question their motives or their purity or anything else but I don't think it's helping.
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It’s an interesting point. George Monbiot has something similar to say in today’s Grauniad (can’t pull a link up, from here, sorry). Essentially, so long as we allow the demagogues to raise the emotional temperature, and respond in kind, people are literally deaf to the quiet voice of reason.
 
the argument has been allowed to be shifted from the realms of the rational to the emotional. and the hard-alt-centrist-whatever-right have proved again and again to be better at pulling those particular strings than remainers. i am beginning to feel that the "argument" has already been lost and that we will be leaving the eu shortly. meanwhile, our opposition leaders are unable to come to any sort of agreement and prove themselves again and again to be boris's best friends in this dismal charade.
 
HairyHaggis said:
the argument has been allowed to be shifted from the realms of the rational to the emotional. and the hard-alt-centrist-whatever-right have proved again and again to be better at pulling those particular strings than remainers. i am beginning to feel that the "argument" has already been lost and that we will be leaving the eu shortly. meanwhile, our opposition leaders are unable to come to any sort of agreement and prove themselves again and again to be boris's best friends in this dismal charade.
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That's the fatalism I was talking about. There is a clear road to a referendum: it's very do-able. It's not the opposition leaders failing to come to an agreement: they've all reached an agreement, apart from one.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
It’s an interesting point. George Monbiot has something similar to say in today’s Grauniad (can’t pull a link up, from here, sorry). Essentially, so long as we allow the demagogues to raise the emotional temperature, and respond in kind, people are literally deaf to the quiet voice of reason.
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I don't even think it comes down to reason vs. emotions. Lot's of people are emotional about the NHS, eco-apocalypse, austerity and so on. It's really about manufactured bull___t vs. the things that actually shape the way that we live and die. But yes, the more you raise the temperature on the BS the harder it is for everyone to remember that they care about other stuff too.
 
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