Grand Master Flash NCC200 build

[Col]

Hi Colin

Mono blocks are a good way to go if you have space IMHO just out of curiosity bread boarding first. (I got banned from that after the cat incident)? If not then try for some slightly larger cases for the VBE later. (It’s well worth the effort)

25-30W would be monstrous with the horns. What drive unites are you using in those beasties?

I have some Fostex 167 with super T’s knocking around somewhere which I used OB. I was thinking of trying the Frugal with those but the wood work had me running for cover.

Looking forward to your build.

Hi Shaun
The Cat incident oops
know what you mean thought I have to watch with the dog with 440 plus volts HT flowing around a breadboard Valve Amps

The Horns Are manly for the Valve stuff, which are the original frugal with Fostex 126E very good mids, but no bottom ends without adding what I call bass helper just a 6-inch bass with passive Xover nothing special but it works in my room
http://www.frugal-horn.com/Frugel-Horn.html

 

[shoom]

Hi Colin

Yes we have two sturdy dogs now which are more able to stand the rigors of my DIY efforts. I’m training them to switch on the new builds at the moment but that’s going a little slowly due to their dislike of the safety goggles (don't try this at home folks).

The frugal that I’ve heard sounded pretty good but as you say a little light at the bottom end.

Why not post your Angela build? I’d be interested.

Also don’t forget to keep us posted on your upcoming NCC200 build.

Again pictures and experiences would be great.

 

[RonR]

Hi Shaun,

Congrats on an excellent Voyager build, I'll be well pleased if my dual-mono clone turns out anything like yours!

Modules and Power supplies are built and tested, there's just some casework and cabling to finish before the big day:

I've used a Double-Decker layout for the home-built VBEs and NCC modules, which along with a shoehorn allows everything to fit into a 2U case. Here it is lashed up for testing:

With any luck, it should be playing music very soon.

Ron

 

[shoom]

Hi Ron

Thanks for the kind words RE my build but it’s really just a copy of Les’s build or as close as I could make it.

Your build sounds interesting and getting it all in a 2U must take some doing.

Unfortunately your photo’s have disappeared so please re post them as I’m sure that others will be as interested in your layout as I am.

Keep us posted on your progress and thoughts re the sound once you are up and running.

 

[RonR]

Sorry about the photos, I'm just getting used to Photobucket. I checked that I could still see them after organising into folders, but maybe they were cached somewhere....

Hopefully they are restored now, and here's a better view of the Double-Decker construction:

Excuse the messy wiring, right-angle "Flag" connectors will be used for the final cabling runs, but for testing I just used straight Fastons.

As you can see, metalwork isn't one of my strong points either.

 

[shoom]

Hi Ron

Sorry for the delayed response as I’m suffering from a bad bout of ‘’ gardeners fatigue’’.

Your metal work looks superb and nothing like the hack thrash and cuss that I usually end up with.

Getting those heat spreaders to fit the boards exactly is no mean feat so a job well done.

I see that you like the PRP’s which sound great and cost not so much along with a liberal spread of wet Tants. It’s my first time using Tants of any kind and I’m impressed.

Those VBE boards look very professional and stacking looks a great way to keep the power lines short. Fitting the whole thing in a 2U case takes some doing and you’ve done a fine job on that.

Having your front end transformers at 90deg to the OP ones should reduce interactions between them so again top marks.

A quick question.

What transformers have you used?

All in all a superb build.

Well done.

Looking forward to your listening thoughts.

 

[Marra]

Like Col I have a pair of 350VA 25-0-25 transformers(the excellent potted AST's supplied by LesW) do you think the lower power would be ok with my FB1+'s Shaun or do they really benefit from the extra power?

 

[shoom]

Like Col I have a pair of 350VA 25-0-25 transformers(the excellent potted AST's supplied by LesW) do you think the lower power would be ok with my FB1+'s Shaun or do they really benefit from the extra power?

Hi Keith

So just a personal opinion and others may differ which is fine.

OK here’s the tale.

I noticed that when going from the 15W class A to a 60W Myref FE that the PMC’s really did come to life. That was quite unexpected TBH regardless of any change in SQ. Yup a surprise given the PMC’s 90db @ 1W sensitivity and flat 8ohm impedance.

The 15W's should have been enough but maybe could be about the extra headroom available when more Watts are available. I’ve not turned the volume up but the sound that I have now with the Voyager has much better dynamic contrast.

So the short answer is yes to my ears in my set up and IMHO the PMC FB1+ that I have love to be driven.

But then others love them with low powered valve stuff so as with most things it really is subjective and down to individual taste.

As for the 25-0-25 transformers TBH I’ve not tried that voltage so can’t comment on how that may sound.

Anyone tried the NCC200 with 35V ish Rails?

 

[Marra]

Thanks Shaun I will start saving for the transformers.In the mean time I'll order the rest of the components and start soldering the Boards.

 

[Col]

Hi Keith Shaun
Yes, I think I would agree with Shaun on this for the most part
However, I think it will also be down to the other parts of the system and a lot to do with room size

Like Shaun I am using Valves now a single ended 6 watts into 93db @1 watt frugal horns and have bags of energy in the system same with my Stand mounts MS 812 @90db sound great on jazz and blues stuff

I also have a NAD 352 which is 80 watts RMS this is even to must power for my WDale 8.3s @89db

In my room
I think the NCC with lower 35v rail will be just right for me and I have two other amps to build at some point that use 35v rails so I think my NCC build with have externalPSUs but will have to give it more thought
A pic of my Horns unfinished



and the mordaunt Short MS812s

Ho and the unfinished JE labs SE Amp

 

[RonR]

Hi Shaun,

SWMBO usually does the gardening around here. She only calls me in when the going gets tough, like today digging out a small tree...

I've used the PRPs in pre-amps before with good results, and the extra few quid added to the build cost seemed worth it to me. I suppose that's what this hobby is about, all those decisions made during the design and build add up to something unique.

I got some 10uF wet tants from Eb*y a few years ago, and had some lined up for the input position but while in storage they all started to leak, so instead I have mil-spec dry tants there for now as they appear to be the next best thing.

Front end transformers are Antec 25VA 2 x 40V and output stage transformers are Noratel 300VA 2 x 30V. Not the absolute best, but there's been no mechanical noise or hum while testing, so I'm happy with them.

The back panel was finished today, I just have to sort out the Mains power and a few earth connections now..... Watch this space.....

 

[shoom]

Hi Collin

‘’Like Shaun I am using Valves’’

Yes I’ve found over time that there are no bad topologies.

Only bad designs.

Those horns look great and first class build also.

Is that Angela ready to play?

What’s the little breadboard phono in the background?

Hi Ron

Coming on nicely.

‘’I've used the PRPs in pre-amps before with good results, and the extra few quid added to the build cost seemed worth it to me. I suppose that's what this hobby is about, all those decisions made during the design and build add up to something unique’’.

Yes I’ve used PRP in the past with good results and not so expensive. I have the Noratel 300va 35V and as you say no hum or mechanical noise what so ever.

Just another quick question.

What’s you front end target voltage?

The info may help others going the same way.

Closer to the big switch on.

 

[Col]

Hi Collin

‘’Like Shaun I am using Valves’’

Yes I’ve found over time that there are no bad topologies.

Only bad designs.

Those horns look great and first class build also.

Is that Angela ready to play?

What’s the little breadboard phono in the background?

That's Because I didn't build them
The Phono is a WAD Phono 2 with two 12AX7a 5151
Yes the was running now has bigger better psu
Sorry didn't intend to go off topic Back to the NCC200 Builds

 

[shoom]

AHi Col

yes i have the WAD phono with Nick Gorham mods and it sounds great. if you are looking for a solid state phono then the Paradise is sooo good and worth thinking on.

Sooooo

and another week goes past and these amps are still improving.

It seems to have become more airy with much more fine detail. The top end has extended still further creating a greater sense of scale and depth. Imaging is first class as is the bass which is fuller but at the same time more tuneful. It’s all music with none of the glare that some amps seem to produce with every listen becoming longer than I'd planned for.

Not sure why things are maturing so slowly but it could be those wet Tants playing a part in that.

The speed and control of these amps is quite staggering at times and still makes my jaw drop. They can also be really delicate and subtle when needed so no one trick pony by any standards.

all in all

TBH the best sounding system I’ve ever had.

Just awesome.

 

[shoom]

In fact I’m so impressed that it’s made me more than a little curious about the pre.

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Coming next.

 

[timH]

Many of us have found the B4 pre a good match for the HackerNap. Well actually saying its a good match is a bit like saying the Pacific Ocean is a bit damp ;-)

 

[Col]

Many of us have found the B4 pre a good match for the HackerNap. Well actually saying its a good match is a bit like saying the Pacific Ocean is a bit damp ;-)

Yes, I posted on the B4 PCB thread as I have most of the parts to build this but the 1N5278/5297 Diodes are not availably or cost too much

but if there,s a good available replacement I may give it a go

 

[andrewsutton]

There may be a few of these components in drawers and boxes within the PFM community. Quite a few folk bought a minimum quantity beyond their needs, as in needed 4 but had to buy 10.
Ask the question!
Cheers Andy.

 

[shoom]

Many of us have found the B4 pre a good match for the HackerNap. Well actually saying its a good match is a bit like saying the Pacific Ocean is a bit damp ;-)

Hi Tim

Yes i've read some good things about the B4 and it's on my to do list.

It's well liked by many and looks like a good design.

However

To my ears, in my setup, IMHO.

I have the Salas DC1B/Goldpoint already and it’s also a really good pre but I’ve tried it with the Voyager clone and TBH it’s a little dynamically underwhelming at times. I had similar results with my glasshouse TVC which I also highly rate and in the right set up its really good. I also tried a TP Opus/Ivy3 which has standard 2V OP and it still did not do it for me.

Maybe the B4 is quite different sound wise but if I was really going down the one source passive route then I’d go straight out of the Buffalo into the Voyager directly and skip the pre. That works very well as others here have found.

But with more than one source a pre of some sort becomes a necessary evil.

Of my primary sources both Buffalo/ Legato and Paradise phono pre have 1.5V ish OP.

Not a huge drop but one all the same.

I’ve found that with my Muses/JMB a20 ( jfet complimentary input) and just a little tickle of 2x gain (3db) @ 50ma OP really lifts the whole performance adding more drive and power to the sound (read excitement).

So yes with these amps I'm finding that I like a little gain.

I’ve used the DCB1 with the MYREF FE and it sounds superb so not knocking the design which is first class IMHO.

But for my tastes just a little more gain works well with the Voyagers (clone of).

I’ve picked the 32.5 as a test bed to try different boards with the 821 AR at the top of the ‘’to try’’ list.

It’s a ‘’transconductance zero feedback’’ design which sounds interesting and worth exploring further. I’ve had some experience of that topology with the Paradise which has an effortless but powerful sound and a whole lot more beside IMHO (read stunning).

But a PSU needs sorting first so I’ll be thinking on that presently.

 

[timH]

Yes, I posted on the B4 PCB thread as I have most of the parts to build this but the 1N5278/5297 Diodes are not availably or cost too much

but if there,s a good available replacement I may give it a go

I think I bought J505s etc from LittleDiode. Might be worth checking out.