General Election 2024

[Tony L]

That’s fine. But in FPTP only Labour or Conservative can win. Brian thinks Labour is the better option, which seems reasonable. A fag paper between them is still a fag paper.

Plus at this point the Tories have destroyed our place on the world stage, crashed the economy, removed us from our business environment, collapsed the NHS, forced children into crumbling classrooms, filled our rivers and coastlines with shit, forced decent working people to foodbanks, bombarded us with racism, bigotry and far-right nationalist rhetoric, and have done so purely to line their own pockets, keep elite global money-laundering scams open and to promote the interests of their billionaire owners.

At this point in time Labour have done none of these things. I’m not implying they won’t do so in the future, I really don’t have any optimism at all (I feel the UK is totally f***ed), but as of right now all of the criminality is on the Tory benches. That has to count for something. I’d still prefer a progressive alliance to a Labour majority, but punishing Tory crooks and shysters is the goal right now. Wipe them out. They do not deserve to exist in public life.

 

[Spraggons Den]

But this is not the Ukraine thread, this is a thread about the UK

No, this is not a thread about the UK generally, rather it is specifically about the 2024 GE and the issues that arise during the course of the campaign. One such topic and one that dominated the headlines recently was The Frogs comments about the origins of the war in Ukraine. So very relevant indeed.

And amusing of course that you share the same views - maybe you will get an invite onto that show he does on GB News where you have a pint with him in like a pretend bar - Vince Cable was on it once.

I sometimes think your eagerness to close down or limit discussion on Ukraine is due to your sensitivity over Chelsea’s glory days, nearly twenty years of PL titles and CL football, being funded by one of Putins men and hence your leniency regarding Putin”s actions. Just a thought and no need for you to reply unless of course you feel the need to do another Sigmund Freud on me.

 

[Jubal]

That’s fine. But in FPTP only Labour or Conservative can win. Brian thinks Labour is the better option, which seems reasonable. A fag paper between them is still a fag paper.

I think what I’ve said above has been stated around 1000 times, just on this thread, by many people. Your response remains the same, that they are the same, only they’re not, quite.

It’s a very simple question: Labour or Tory, and for most it’s Labour. Who is it for you?

You also know his answer. Even if FPTP destroys your choices, you still have some beyond the above options.

He has no fix for the 2024 term. He just has a vision for decades hence. We can all dream.

 

[ks.234]

That’s fine. But in FPTP only Labour or Conservative can win. Brian thinks Labour is the better option, which seems reasonable. A fag paper between them is still a fag paper.

I think what I’ve said above has been stated around 1000 times, just on this thread, by many people. Your response remains the same, that they are the same, only they’re not, quite.

It’s a very simple question: Labour or Tory, and for most it’s Labour. Who is it for you?

Neither. They are both Tory ideologues.

Labour will be drawn ever further to the right by Farage. Looking at Ashworth and their immigration policy they are already in bed with him as it is.

What is this fag paper that you think is going to male any difference?

 

[ks.234]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1805543306308243693

 

[ks.234]

You also know his answer. Even if FPTP destroys your choices, you still have some beyond the above options.

He has no fix for the 2024 term. He just has a vision for decades hence. We can all dream.

Labour will win with a landslide. Not sure what all the fuss is about. The future of neoliberalism is assured.

A vote for Labour is a vote for more Tory ideology, it really is that simple.

 

[Spraggons Den]

Not much discussion so far about how the campaign is going north of the border. So as long as KS.69 doesnt mind, here is John Crace’s take on it having been to the SNP manifesto launch (from the Graun):

“…it could have been just a reprint of the manifesto for the last election. And the one before that. There was the central demand for independence. The reversal of Brexit. An end to austerity.

All stuff that has been on the agenda for years. Now you could argue this says as much about the intransigence of the Westminster government, but it still makes it hard to keep voting for a party that can’t achieve its goals. Especially when its track record of government in Scotland is mixed at best. There comes a time when people just want decent schools and hospitals and for junkies to stop dying of overdoses more than they want independence.

There was one noticeable change to the manifesto. There were no photos at all apart from the one of John Swinney on the front. There were more photos of Keir Starmer being nice to babies in the Labour manifesto than there were pages in the SNP’s. Back in the day, all SNP election material would be plastered with pictures of Nicola Sturgeon. Nicola healing the sick. Nicola walking on water. Now, nothing. Six weeks into the job and Swinney is still largely anonymous to most people. We have a problem, Houston.”

 

[Alex S]

What is this fag paper that you think is going to male any difference?

See Tony's 1st paragraph above - slightly less of that.

 

[Finnegan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1805543306308243693

He’s a pathetic little Blairite pipsqueak. He spoke at Unison health conference in Liverpool a few years ago when he was shadow health Secretary. I collared him at Lime Street station and asked what a Labour government was going to do to reverse Tory privatisation in the NHS. He muttered nervously before saying he had to run to catch his train- little maggot.

 

[Ponty]

I guess it depends whether you think rising interest rates are worse than rising sea levels.

I certainly agree that humans need to reduce consumption, of pretty much everything. High interest rates (we don’t have those today) would help achieve that. Lots of tax would too. Maybe some of their policies aren’t so bad in a bid to achieve a lower consumption economy. Can’t see western consumer spending addicts voting for it though.

 

[paulfromcamden]

Can’t see western consumer spending addicts voting for it though.

You could be right. Which is why as a species, long term, we're probably ****ed.

To me it's utterly unfathomable that we should be rapidly heading towards a point where we render a large amount of the planet uninhabitable - the absolute worst thing that's ever happened to the human race - but none of the main parties are really talking about it.

People are worried about mass immigration? Just give it a few decades when great swathes of land are lost to rising sea levels.

 

[ks.234]

See Tony's 1st paragraph above - slightly less of that.

crashed the economy Labour are promising the self same economy, but ironcladding it

removed us from our business environment, Labour are not promising to rejoin the EU. They have made noises about moving closer, but we will have to see


collapsed the NHS. Labour are promising more collapse

forced children into crumbling classrooms. Labour’s investment in Education amounts to 0.2 teachers per school. Crumbling infrastructure will still crumble

filled our rivers and coastlines with shit. Labour’s solution is?

forced decent working people to foodbanks No Labour plans to address that need

bombarded us with racism, bigotry and far-right nationalist rhetoric, and have done so purely to line their own pockets, keep elite global money-laundering scams open and to promote the interests of their billionaire owners. Much the same as Labour

We really are talking about the thinnest of gag papers here.

 

[Darmok]

I'll vote for the party aligned with my views, I'm not playing silly buggers.

Mmmm, good hunting.

 

[Ponty]

You could be right. Which is why as a species, long term, we're probably ****ed.

To me it's utterly unfathomable that we should be rapidly heading towards a point where we render a large amount of the planet uninhabitable - the absolute worst thing that's ever happened to the human race - but none of the main parties are really talking about it.

People are worried about mass immigration? Just give it a few decades when great swathes of land are lost to rising sea levels.

Govts need the golden arrow of consumption to keep getting bigger. There’s also the issue that the UK is a tiny piece of a global jigsaw. If we all dropped dead tomorrow, or all drove V8’s and ate T bones every day, would either scenario make a material difference globally? It’s a global issue which requires a global solution. Hmm, yes, we’re doomed…

 

[matt j]

Mmmm, good hunting.

Not difficult, Green is the easy choice.

 

[ks.234]

Govts need the golden arrow of consumption to keep getting bigger.

Yes. Our current economy is built on consumption, which is why government spending to make people better off works, and austerity does not. It doesn’t make sense logically, let alone environmentally

There’s also the issue that the UK is a tiny piece of a global jigsaw. If we all dropped dead tomorrow, or all drove V8’s and ate T bones every day, would either scenario make a material difference globally? It’s a global issue which requires a global solution. Hmm, yes, we’re doomed…

Yes. One of my arguments with the Green party is the focus on consumer action. We need to focus much more on the producers. While recycling etc are necessary, they are a long way from being sufficient. As one oil company boss said, “the more people are focussed on recycling, the less they will care about the environment.

 

[Joe P]

Voting Green can influence politics even if the party doesn’t win any seats in parliament. Look at what Farage has achieved … well, nothing I’d want, but the point stands.

Joe

 

[Kirk]

Well client journalism exists still. Everyone who plays that game must be doing it with their eyes wide shut.

He's an activist masquerading as a journo.

 

[paulfromcamden]

I see former Labour MP and washing machine salesman Keith 'Jim' Vaz is standing as an independent in Leicester.

Before you laugh remember that he's explained what happened. He only invited the two Romanian rent boys round because he wanted to discuss interior design.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

Just listened to the Panorama Ramsey Robinson interview. Is this the one? Didn’t hear anything about tax evaporating?

No. It was taken for granted by the interviewer that tax was always a 'cost' for people whthout any awarness that it also gave money (sic) to the Government which could then be used to pay out and support people. i.e. *invest* in:

schools - lifting levels of education and thus productivity
NHS - making people fitter and better able to work, etc
social housing - making housing better and more affordable

Plus factors like investing in 'green' energy source capture methods - which in the long run save us other 'costs' inc the impact of ACC *and* letting us sell things like wind turbines at a lower cost to other nations so they can also benefit - thus for example, reducing the impact of ACC on them that then reduces pressure to migrate, etc.

In some ways this parallels the usual twaddle 'one-step thinking' economics you even see in places like PE where "Old Sparky" comments on the relative 'costs' of various of Green renewables versus the fossils - without taking into the acount the 'costs' off-the-books-now which our children will have to pay to try and cope with ACC.