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F'ing ebay tossers

But ebay have no right to say the buyer can keep the tonearm.
 
Mick P said:
Paul

You ain't much of a lawyer.

Under international law, the law of the buyer takes precedence over the law of the seller, so UK law means nothing. Everything has to be conducted in the land of the buyer and by the courts of the buyers land.

He cannot sue ebay because they are acting as an international broker. They have broken no law. Mr biglebowski sold and thee buyer bought, all ebay do is facilitate.

The only thing Mr biglebowski can do is literally drive over, very politely knock on the buyers door and politely ask him to return the arm. If the buyer says no, the Mr biglebowski is stuffed.

Selling and buying abroad is ultra risky and this episode proves that.

Never sell abroad unless you have the wherewithal to take court action in a foreign land.

Mick
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Not sure ebay are in the position to tell someone they can keep someone else's property?
 
Mick P said:
Paul

You ain't much of a lawyer.

Under international law, the law of the buyer takes precedence over the law of the seller, so UK law means nothing. Everything has to be conducted in the land of the buyer and by the courts of the buyers land.

He cannot sue ebay because they are acting as an international broker. They have broken no law. Mr biglebowski sold and thee buyer bought, all ebay do is facilitate.

The only thing Mr biglebowski can do is literally drive over, very politely knock on the buyers door and politely ask him to return the arm. If the buyer says no, the Mr biglebowski is stuffed.

Selling and buying abroad is ultra risky and this episode proves that.

Never sell abroad unless you have the wherewithal to take court action in a foreign land.

Mick
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eBay have made a judgement and told the buyer that they can have a refund and keep the arm. They are not just the broker but have now interfered in the process, made an incorrect judgement on a fake, and must be held to account for their taking this role in the matter.
Someone has made a false representation. If eBay wriggle more, then maybe sue the individual that made the incorrect judgement on the fake, or sue the buyer for raising a dispute on a lie.
 
pil said:
Not sure ebay are in the position to tell someone they can keep someone else's property?
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Yes they can because the onus is now on Mr biglebowski to prove the item is not a fake. They are advising the seller to keep it, what the seller does is up to him.

International trading takes a lot of learning and the rules of natural fair play takes a back seat.
 
Rasher said:
eBay have made a judgement and told the buyer that they can have a refund and keep the arm. They are not just the broker but have now interfered in the process, made an incorrect judgement on a fake, and must be held to account for their taking this role in the matter.
Someone has made a false representation. If eBay wriggle more, then maybe sue the individual that made the incorrect judgement on the fake, or sue the buyer for raising a dispute on a lie.
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Rasher

Try acting neutral - this is international law.

ebay are not enforcing, they are advising the buyer what to do, ie keep the arm. I would do the same if I was a broker. However if the buyer is prepared to return the arm they can do so, however they would be foolish to do so because if the arm is a fake, they have broken the law. The problem is, it may or may not be a fake, we just do not know.

To be blunt, the title of this thread is misleading, ebay are not tossers, they are just obeying international law.
 
But if ebay are convinced it's a fake they should be handing it over to the police/whoever.
 
Mick P said:
Yes they can because the onus is now on Mr biglebowski to prove the item is not a fake. They are advising the seller to keep it, what the seller does is up to him.

International trading takes a lot of learning and the rules of natural fair play takes a back seat.
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Guessing if roksan have pics of similar arm & can confirm they used to make it,it should be easy enough to get it back.
 
It was assumed it was a fake due to the lack of a badge, which has now been proven an unsafe assumption because of further events and correspondence.
There are no longer any grounds to continue the 'fake' reasoning.

I think it's time to sue the buyer on an unsubstantiated claim if it really is the case that eBay have only advised the buyer to keep the arm.
I suggest we hire a van and go to Germany and pay a visit.
 
It should be sent back to Roksan who would then destroy it if found to be fake.

Ebay have no skills or rights to decree it is fake without checking first. Their wording was (exact wording)

"the buyer has confirmed to us the product is fake therefore it is forbidden to bring the articles into traffic more so he will have"

I'm still waiting for a response to asking how he confirmed to them it was fake.
 
pil said:
Guessing if roksan have pics of similar arm & can confirm they used to make it,it should be easy enough to get it back.
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The only way Roksan can verify it is genuine is for them to physically examine it, no court will accept a photograph as being conclusive evidence.

Now how does the buyer send it to Roksan, ah yes he sends it through the post and if it is indeed a fake, is open to prosecution. ebay are merely pointing this out under duty of care.

The best advice for a private citizen is to accept that foreign transactions are too risky to be worth the trouble.

Mr biglebowski has had an unfortunate experience and the cost of putting it right outweighs the cost of the arm.

He is best advised to forget about it and move on, which I agree is not pleasant.
 
Starting to sound like "not an easy one this" :(

I would get legal advice first. If it were 50 quid I'd say scrub it. But £350 is quite a bit to lose! :(
 
The basis on it being judged a fake has already been blown to pieces. There is no more reason to think it is a fake than the postage stamp on the box. eBay have to retract their judgement of it being a fake because there is evidence to suggest they have made a mistake. With no reason to believe it is a fake, it can be sent to Roksan for evaluation.
Is there a serial number? That would nail it as early and unbadged.
 
pil said:
Guessing if roksan have pics of similar arm & can confirm they used to make it,it should be easy enough to get it back.
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I sent them pics of other Tabriz arms without badges as part of the case. I found loads using google images.

I've emailed Tufan at Roksan asking if he could provide any evidence or failing that a statement.
 
Mick P said:
The only way Roksan can verify it is genuine is for them to physically examine it, no court will accept a photograph as being conclusive evidence.

Now how does the buyer send it to Roksan, ah yes he sends it through the post and if it is indeed a fake, is open to prosecution. ebay are merely pointing this out under duty of care.

The best advice for a private citizen is to accept that foreign transactions are too risky to be worth the trouble.

Mr biglebowski has had an unfortunate experience and the cost of putting it right outweighs the cost of the arm.

He is best advised to forget about it and move on, which I agree is not pleasant.
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It is not fake until proven so, he would just be sending a tonearm back to the manufacturer for authentication.
 
I'm in France and Germany next week visiting our offices so may well take a detour to "visit" the buyer if he refuses to return it.
 
thebiglebowski said:
It is not fake until proven so, he would just be sending a tonearm back to the manufacturer for authentication.
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No no no the onus is on you to prove it is genuine and that I am afraid is next to impossible to do economically given the low value.

I know this topic quite well but if you do not believe me, go to a lawyer who specialises in international conveyance. However, get your wallet ready before you walk in.
 
thebiglebowski said:
I'm in France and Germany next week visiting our offices so may well take a detour to "visit" the buyer if he refuses to return it.
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Be sensible

If he hands it over, then all is well. If he later claims that you intimidated him, then be prepared for a lot of hassle.
 
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